O/T Brexit

[Trickytreesreds]

Painful personal experience of seeing the (ahem) "service" provided to three family members in their later years. During those experiences I also saw the total neglect of other poor folk, especially in the hospital, which I did try to highlight and prevent, and I've also received numerous anecdotal examples from other people who had a similar stories which show that my own experiences were not isolated examples. And before you say it, in my examples at least, these were not "resources issues" but laziness, lack of professionalism and attention to detail, not to mention the lack of even the most basic human instinct to care about someone suffering right in front of your eyes.

I don't actually object to health care being publicly funded, provided the money is being well spent, that outcomes are properly monitored and the people being paid to do the job are held accountable if they let their standards slip, but within such a huge bureaucratic structure this quality control has become impossible to maintain.

Even when the NHS is proven to have failed (and only a tiny percentage of people have the energy to pursue their case that far), there's no true accountability. The public are supposed to be placated with the news that the relevant trust has been issued with a heavy fine, apparently oblivious to the fact that they are actually fining themselves. The lazy or incompetent individuals responsible for the failure invariably walk away virtually scot-free or with a slap on the wrist, either continuing in the same role or moving elsewhere.

Don't get me wrong, there are many people within the NHS who do care and do an excellent job, but that's because of the personal standards they set themselves. There's no pressure from the organisation to be conscientious. In fact, the way it operates makes it very attractive to those who patently do not care and fancy an easy ride.

Wow I couldn't have written that better myself.

Time for a sharp shock of the NHS adulators, as to what goes on. For 2 years my GP failed to diagnose and forward me on to a specialist when I had advanced Cutaneous melanoma. As a result, I had 4 operations down to the bone ,
As a result I have struggled with pain/embarrassment/ danger.
I became angry as I didn't even get an apology and I thought I am not taking this lying down and activated a barrister to pursue the courts.
Now as a result, I found a lump in my neck and again the GP and hospital weren't interested. They told me it will take months to get me looked at. I thought stuff you and reminded them a common law claim was in motion, all stemming from from my original treatment.
I have had a huge chunk of my neck removed in a 5 hour operation with lymphatic cancer and no one gave a **** until legal threats hit them.
Now I feel guilty, knowing I have probably delayed someone else.
Oh and BTW, the GP involved took early retirement the minute the legal forms arrived on his doorstep. It wasn't the only time he'd been dragged to court and would certainly be his last.

So I agree with Jackal, there is some wonderful people and places in the NHS. There is also some incompetent ****s as well and a distinct lack of professionalism in places.
Accountability applies to everyone. Being a well paid Health employee doesn't make you un touchable.

[jackal2]

Accountability applies to everyone. Being a well paid Health employee doesn't make you un touchable.

You make an important point. I've seen examples in both the NHS and social services where waste of resources or poor practice has been deservedly highlighted and criticised, and the only defence of the perpetrators is the "How can you criticise me? I'm in the caring profession!" line. Being in the caring profession is a different thing to actually caring. Many do care, but some don't. Some want to be paid public money for doing as little as possible.

[BigFatPie]

Speak to the people who work in the NHS, not the administrators or managers but the hands on people, I know quite a few and they all sing from the same hymn sheet. Far to many chiefs and not enough Indians, paying way over the odds for supplies and drugs.
The NHS is brilliant but just throwing money at it is a waste of time unless it goes in the right place.

If you think the NHS pays over the odds for drugs now wait until the effects of Brexit kick in. Those nice US pharmaceutical companies are rubbing their hands together with excitement.

[navypie]

If you think the NHS pays over the odds for drugs now wait until the effects of Brexit kick in. Those nice US pharmaceutical companies are rubbing their hands together with excitement.

If you think the NHS won't save money by having not to to nail everything down when the Roma visit a kid, my wife tells me they come in mob handed and steal anything they can get their hands on .

[jackal2]

Dominic Raab claiming that a successful deal is in sight:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45931973

I'll believe it when I see it, because I don't know how that can be achieved without a degree of climbdown that will be unacceptable either to hardline Conservatives and Leavers here, or the power brokers in the EU. If a deal is achieved, I suspect it will involve one side or the other signing their own death warrant, but I'm open to surprises.

[slack_pie]

Apologies for the delayed reply slack_pie, I couldn't get online yesterday.

Yes I voted Leave, in the full knowledge that a No Deal scenario was likely if not inevitable. The red lines which existed between the EU and the Conservative Government on day one of the negotiations are broadly the same ones which make a deal unlikely now, so we've already wasted two years and millions of pounds on a process that was never likely to resolve anything. There's no point extending the process yet further, because unless either side effectively agrees to its own suicide, nothing is going to change.

Will a No Deal Brexit present big difficulties for Britain? No doubt yes, but the blame for those consequences lies with the decision which got us into this situation 40 years ago, not the decision to extricate ourselves from it now. To employ an analogy, if you decide to start taking heroin and get addicted over many years, then trying to end that addiction is an extremely unpleasant and difficult thing to do, but it doesn't mean it's the wrong thing to do. The pain is the consequence of the stupid decision you made in the first place, and sadly you have to accept that in order to eventually get your health back.

Thanks for the reply. I'm not sure I agree with your analogy, mind. The establishment of the EU has played a large part in ensuring stability and peace in Europe. Before the EU, conflict and tension between nations was the norm. Also, membership of the EU brings huge economic benefits - frictionless access to the largest economy in the world. So EU membership brings stability, peace and economic benefits - not exactly like being addicted to heroin. If anything, leaving the EU is like an almighty relapse - the best we can hope for is to get back to where we were before we left.

[Trickytreesreds]

Thanks for the reply. I'm not sure I agree with your analogy, mind. The establishment of the EU has played a large part in ensuring stability and peace in Europe. Before the EU, conflict and tension between nations was the norm. Also, membership of the EU brings huge economic benefits - frictionless access to the largest economy in the world. So EU membership brings stability, peace and economic benefits - not exactly like being addicted to heroin. If anything, leaving the EU is like an almighty relapse - the best we can hope for is to get back to where we were before we left.

Don't agree Slacky. I think you'll find the forming of NATO has kept the peace in europe. Especially as the two main children falling out Germany and France, found themselves on the same side.
I'll concede it made members talk to each other better than they ever had before. But it certainly did not hold the peace.
The funny thing about this is. Some of those memebrs have been cheating on their commitments to NATO budgets and suddenly we have an EU army waiting in the wings. Remember, that rumor that folks said was complete bollox and would never happen.
It's the UK exit that pisses them off with that, as the armed forces of this country would contribute a huge percentage of that commitment.
It is also why the UK has a seat at the UN head table, something Junker wants stripped off us. Considering the way the EU keeps poking Putin, I want our lads as far away from those idiots as possible.

[Trickytreesreds]

Dominic Raab claiming that a successful deal is in sight:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45931973

I'll believe it when I see it, because I don't know how that can be achieved without a degree of climbdown that will be unacceptable either to hardline Conservatives and Leavers here, or the power brokers in the EU. If a deal is achieved, I suspect it will involve one side or the other signing their own death warrant, but I'm open to surprises.

I agree Jacks.
The EU won't give you **** all, it cannot. All the talk Cameron and the cronies said about reform was hog wash.

If May bends, then she's done and so are probably the Tories.

So I'll say again, no deal is what it is and always was. Stop arsing about, get on with it.

[slack_pie]

Don't agree Slacky. I think you'll find the forming of NATO has kept the peace in europe. Especially as the two main children falling out Germany and France, found themselves on the same side.
I'll concede it made members talk to each other better than they ever had before. But it certainly did not hold the peace.
The funny thing about this is. Some of those memebrs have been cheating on their commitments to NATO budgets and suddenly we have an EU army waiting in the wings. Remember, that rumor that folks said was complete bollox and would never happen.
It's the UK exit that pisses them off with that, as the armed forces of this country would contribute a huge percentage of that commitment.
It is also why the UK has a seat at the UN head table, something Junker wants stripped off us. Considering the way the EU keeps poking Putin, I want our lads as far away from those idiots as possible.

So if we saw the dissolution of the EU over the next couple of decades, do you think that would make Europe a safer, more stable place, or the opposite?

[Trickytreesreds]

So if we saw the dissolution of the EU over the next couple of decades, do you think that would make Europe a safer, more stable place, or the opposite?

In the main it would stay the same
The days of European imperialist expansion has gone.
The only volatile areas are the borders of Russia and Islam. I'd be more worried about NATO breaking up and when the EU forms its little private army. The EU seems hell bent on sucking in any second rate country it can and IS THE EXPANSIONIST.
The UK is a nuclear power and would have given Junkers private army more credibility, so I'm glad we won't adding to the pressure.

It still escapes me, how folks are ignoring the fact, the EU should be no more than a working co operation. That in itself helps countries live together happily. It's trade that has been hijacked and now used as a club to bash members over the head, if you do not co operate with the push for "closer integration".
There is only one Empire being formed here and it is the EU.
That makes me nervous, considering countries from the old soviet bloc, broke out of a controlling state. The way the EU is trying to bully them into line over immigration, is like poking a bear with a stick. Not forgetting Yugoslavia who fought itself to a stand still to break up "forced integration".

Just another Remainer scare tactic I'm afraid. Nothing to see here, move along.