O/T The Price Of Coal 1977 BBC Drama

[gkotw]

Back on topic, ive had a quick look at the films. Must admit I'd never heard of it/them before. I initially assumed it was a documentary, but its a drama. Old Bobby Nut and Duggy Brown star in it. It is well made, theres no doubting that. Having googled it, it seems it was filmed in Rotherham and Wakey. How has this gem passed me by!!

[KerrAvon]

Absolutely i would, i'd end it across the world right now if it was upto me, you see, it's killing the planet, i couldn't give two f's about the money side of stuff, but i can and do realise, unlike yourself and other blinkered folk, that the burning of fossil fuels is going to kill us all........the strike, and the fight for jobs, is a totally different issue, totally.

Can you explain how it is a different issue? Whether the mines were to be closed for economic, political or environmental reasons is irrelevant to the issue of whether jobs would be lost.

Reading the posts on here, it's hard not to conclude that the jobs you were fighting for were dangerous and unpleasant ones that you didn't really want.

You are mistaken in your belief that I am a climate change denier, by the way. I think perhaps the head of steam that you developed on the fracking thread may have blinkered you on that point.

On the topic of the thread, I remember the programmes being talked about at school, but have never watched them. I may well do so when I am back in blighty.

[millmoormagic]

What does make a good job then?

Was better than working in retail or a call centre which are the jobs that have replaced mining (in the later years again).

Exactly that, what the f ook do you think we were fighting for, proper jobs, proper wages, not call centres or retail.....ffs how hard is that to understand, don't you get it yet, we could see this happening, it was planned this way, by the "left wing elite" you keep harping on about, how blinkered, (or stupid) do you have to be to not see what was before, and is now????

[millmoormagic]

Can you explain how it is a different issue? Whether the mines were to be closed for economic, political or environmental reasons is irrelevant to the issue of whether jobs would be lost.

Reading the posts on here, it's hard not to conclude that the jobs you were fighting for were dangerous and unpleasant ones that you didn't really want.

You are mistaken in your belief that I am a climate change denier, by the way. I think perhaps the head of steam that you developed on the fracking thread may have blinkered you on that point.

On the topic of the thread, I remember the programmes being talked about at school, but have never watched them. I may well do so when I am back in blighty.

I'll tell you how it's a different issue, back then coal was still king, the banks were still giving x4 annual wage mortgages to miners as it was a 'safe' industry, lifetime of work etc etc and there was no mention, none whatsoever of any climate change problems regarding coal, again. Lets fast forward to here and now, it's plain to everyone apart from the profiteers that fossil fuels are seriously damaging the planet, as a staunch supporter of the coal industry in the past, i can happily accept that indesputable fact and campaign for the end to that use of fossil fuels....you, as a staunch supporter of the free market, wants to continue the use of fossil fuels, indeed you're actively encouraging the use of ever more 'dirty' types of said fossil fuels, ie brown coal, fracking etc etc, well done you super intelligent fella, your shares are all up, your grandkids all have asthma and can only play outside 1 hour a day......great choice.

As for you reading/watching stuff when you're back in blighty....really, i mean, all you've done for the past week or two is post your deflection on here, while you're 'supposed' to be on hols.....give me a break fella, if you're on hols and doing this shyte you're a facking dollshead, even so, if you're on hols you can still watch whatever you want these days, so, what's your agenda, really, i love a bit of honesty myself, and i think you're the least honest on here, a charlaton, even gf, though deluded, has more integrity.

[millavanilla]

That's exactly why they were all closed; because they weren't profitable in the long run. I'm friends with many fitters/electricians who served their time in the industry, and from their tales it's not difficult to understand why it wasn't profitable. They all agree it was the best job they've ever had, the best paid job they've ever had, the best pension scheme they've ever had, while also telling stories of how often they were skiving, and did very little work. It was never going to be sustainable with that work ethic. Why should the government have subsidized it? Welcome to the real world now, it must come as a shock to you.

My dad was a miner..he worked for 49 years and 9 months in the pit as a tailgate ripper all bar the last few years on a button..he finished aged 63..he never left a pit but was transferred on several occasions...roughwood, roundwood, skiers, barley hall, bradgate..i can tell you he didnt get a good pension, didnt get a good pay off, ( unless you think 1500 and odd quid was ), and from what i understand, he didnt need to be questioned on the subject of graft, working for such along time in the rip...i once went down a pit on a school visit, but we didnt have to crawl in 18 inch spaces like my dad..people like you wouldnt last two minutes..

[animallittle3]

I don't think anyone wanted their children to follow then down.

In the later days it was different though, a lot safer and better paid.

It was a living wage fire , as a faceworker you could earn enough to have a modest car and mortgage , two weeks holiday , pay your bills and feed your family .

Given the nature of the work and dangers we accepted that it was the reason we earned what we did in comparison to factory work at that time .

Even though personally the work wasn't great you still fought to keep the relative lifestyle you enjoyed .

This wasn't a career it was a job , a job that paid above other forms of work in this area .

You have to factor in the times of 1984 / 85 , no minimum wage and jobs were hard to come by , if you lost your job back then you could be unemployed for 12 to 18 months easily .

Yet again going back to the times of the day , the safety only improved because of the lessons learned when people were killed down there , risk assessments didn't exist .

Don't let anyone tell you different , we had to graft , we had targets to hit and the management were on your backs if you didn't hit them , there was no fecking about , just because the NUM was a strong union didn't mean you could take the pyss down there .

[CTMilller]

A few comments:

Having sat on the management side of industrial relations issues for a large part of my life , I have to say I did not have much time, in the past, for miners' demands for ever increasing wages and improved conditions. I felt the NUM was holding the country to ransom to the point where they were the architects of their own downfall and as much, if not more, at fault for the failure of the mining industry to survive. I was not sympathetic to their cause in 1984/5.

In the last few years, especially after retirement, I've gradually revised my position:

I've become increasingly aware that, while there was some logic in the Tory party's position that 'something' had to change in the way that the economics of mining were working, there was most definitely a vindictiveness and a lack of desire to understand the position of the NUM and the people they represented. It was union-bashing organised to 'play to the gallery' of right of centre sentiment and it completely missed the point that a constructive outcome could be a possible option. I've become increasingly uncomfortable with this - especially as I've viewed, and reviewed, some of the film footage of what happened in the confrontations with the police

A couple of years ago on a visit to UK I went to the National Coal Mining Museum in Wakefield and made the trip down to the old workings. While this has obviously had to be sanitized to make it an easier environment for public visits, it was still an eye-opener. Anybody who has any doubts about how tough it is to work underground for years on end should visit this place. Just the ride down the mine shaft is not for the faint of heart. I can understand why the NUM worked so hard to raise pay levels. I don't necessarily agree with an excessively militant approach to industrial relations but I can at least understand why the NUM was so well supported.

We all talk about relatives who worked in mining. My father after the war was looking for work. He was a pretty tough character who had stayed on in Germany after 1945 to help with the denazification program and was trained to do a lot of unpleasant things. When he came back he had a go as a coal miner and was set on at Thurcroft. He lasted two days. His description of the life of a miner matches much of what has been said on this thread.

Finally, and I've said this before, the OT threads on this board have been useful for me to get a proper understanding of what the life of a miner was actually like and how they fared in the strike. To get to know ex-miners is a rare opportunity to understand how things actually were and this too has helped shape my reformed opinion.

I shall watch the film, in due course, and will continue to keep an open mind.

[monty_rhodes]

My goodness, CT, you're dragging this board down sir. We can't have people posting who take a considered view, who can see merit and fault on both sides, who revise their views on the basis of evidence and experience. No, sir, it will not do.
I never worked as a miner, nor did any of my family going back to when they arrived here from Ireland. But whatever the arguments about the industry and the strike it seems to me that a great social injustice was done. That the miners' leaders may have to some extent "brought this on themselves" is irrelevant to the failure of government to behave in a fair and compassionate way. You do not have to be a socialist to see that much of what the Tories did under Thatcher (and are still doing) was motivated by spite, by class hatred (or contempt) by a disregard for the less well-off and by a Little England worldview. Regrettably, in this country that remains a winning formula.

[monty_rhodes]

As for you reading/watching stuff when you're back in blighty....really, i mean, all you've done for the past week or two is post your deflection on here, while you're 'supposed' to be on hols.....give me a break fella, if you're on hols and doing this shyte you're a facking dollshead, even so, if you're on hols you can still watch whatever you want these days, so, what's your agenda, really, i love a bit of honesty myself, and i think you're the least honest on here, a charlaton, even gf, though deluded, has more integrity.

MMM, well said.

[millmoormagic]

A few comments:

Having sat on the management side of industrial relations issues for a large part of my life , I have to say I did not have much time, in the past, for miners' demands for ever increasing wages and improved conditions. I felt the NUM was holding the country to ransom to the point where they were the architects of their own downfall and as much, if not more, at fault for the failure of the mining industry to survive. I was not sympathetic to their cause in 1984/5.

In the last few years, especially after retirement, I've gradually revised my position:

I've become increasingly aware that, while there was some logic in the Tory party's position that 'something' had to change in the way that the economics of mining were working, there was most definitely a vindictiveness and a lack of desire to understand the position of the NUM and the people they represented. It was union-bashing organised to 'play to the gallery' of right of centre sentiment and it completely missed the point that a constructive outcome could be a possible option. I've become increasingly uncomfortable with this - especially as I've viewed, and reviewed, some of the film footage of what happened in the confrontations with the police

A couple of years ago on a visit to UK I went to the National Coal Mining Museum in Wakefield and made the trip down to the old workings. While this has obviously had to be sanitized to make it an easier environment for public visits, it was still an eye-opener. Anybody who has any doubts about how tough it is to work underground for years on end should visit this place. Just the ride down the mine shaft is not for the faint of heart. I can understand why the NUM worked so hard to raise pay levels. I don't necessarily agree with an excessively militant approach to industrial relations but I can at least understand why the NUM was so well supported.

We all talk about relatives who worked in mining. My father after the war was looking for work. He was a pretty tough character who had stayed on in Germany after 1945 to help with the denazification program and was trained to do a lot of unpleasant things. When he came back he had a go as a coal miner and was set on at Thurcroft. He lasted two days. His description of the life of a miner matches much of what has been said on this thread.

Finally, and I've said this before, the OT threads on this board have been useful for me to get a proper understanding of what the life of a miner was actually like and how they fared in the strike. To get to know ex-miners is a rare opportunity to understand how things actually were and this too has helped shape my reformed opinion.

I shall watch the film, in due course, and will continue to keep an open mind.

I understand some of that CT, i really do, but these things have to be taken in context, the miner's union was borne out of men, women and kids being exploited, the miner's union, and working underground was a perfect foil for it, became stronger because of the treatment of said workers, that work, underground, to be as safe as it could ever be, was a close knit, teamwork effort, from ALL concerned, i often hear the word 'teamwork' these days in work and believe me when i tell you, the mines didn't work without it, and i've seen none to match it since.....
Because of that 'teamwork' a bond was created between miners, a bond that i don't think anyone who hasn't worked underground could possibly understand, but that bond also created solidarity, if the managers facked about with one miner, they were facking about with them all......BRILLIANT. They couldn't get away with scamming folk out of cash, or petty misdemeanor discipline, simple as that. And yes, that power was used to get better conditions, better terms of employment, better safety underground, and the country benefitted as a whole, big style, most other manual occupations benefitted from the miner's power, did that power sometimes go too far?? maybe, maybe it did, what i do know though, is that the miners in 1984/5 were disgracefully abandoned by the union movement and the labour party, kicked in the ballacks by our own, another story in itself.

Do me a favour and try to watch the film 'Still the enemy within' directed by Owen Gower, it will go some way towards making you understand what really happened, a Silverwood striker features prominently throughout....