O/T The Price Of Coal 1977 BBC Drama

[KerrAvon]

In summary, is the position this? The Trade Union movement brought workers together and through solidarity obtained improvements in pay, working conditions and safety for their members, but by the 60s and 70s they had become increasingly militant and had taken on a political dimension. And the cost of that was that solidarity was no longer something to be asked for or encouraged - it was something to be imposed through the intimidation of working people, if necessary.

Labour supporters rarely seem to want a talk about the 10% asset seizure. Can't think why...

[Adventus2012]

I blame joining the EU for the downturn in British Industry, Heres what John Redwood MP thinks, it is food for thought and worth a read imo.

How joining the EU led to a big decline in UK industry
By john redwood | Published: June 16, 2016

There are also crucial issues to understand about how the asymmetric single market did damage to Uk industry. When we joined the EEC, now the EU, in 1973, more barriers to trade had been pulled down in manufacturing than in services. EU rules were often such that UK industry was badly damaged by the shock of joining and the continued shock of staying in as the rules increased and tightened.

When the UK joined the EU we had a 45 million tonnes a year steel industry. Today we are battling to save an 11 million tonnes industry.

When we joined the EU we had a 400,000 tonnes a year aluminium industry. Today we have just 43,000 tonnes of capacity left.

When we joined the EU we had 20 million tonnes of cement capacity. Today we have 12 million tonnes.

Just before we joined the EEC in 1971 we had a 1 million tonnes a year fishing industry. Today we have 600,000 tonnes.

The October 2013 government “Future of Manufacturing” Report shows that between 1951 and 1973 metals output rose 3% a year. Since joining the EEC/EU it has declined by more than 6%

Between 1951 and 1973 food and drink output rose by 5.6% per year. Since joining the EEC/EU it has fallen by 1% a year.

Between 1951 and 1973 textiles output expanded at 2.6% a year. Since joining the EEC/EU it has fallen by more than 6% a year.

Whilst it may not be fair to blame all this decline on membership of the EU, as there are other factors, it nonetheless shows categorically that joining the EU and helping create the so called single market has not helped us grow and has not saved many of our industries from decline.

In some cases EU policies are the main driver of the disaster. The Common Fishing Policy is clearly the main reason for the dreadful decline of our fishing industry, as many foreign vessels were licenced to take our fish. Our energy intensive businesses were often damaged by the high energy prices required by the EU common energy policy.

The EU has prevented UK subsidy of industry under its state aids rules, but has often provided subsidised loans and grants to businesses to set up elsewhere in the EU. The UK has seen a spate of factory closures balanced by new and expanded facilities in poorer EU countries. The UK lost van production to Turkey, car capacity to Slovakia, chocolate to Poland, domestic appliances to the Netherlands and the Czech Republic and metal containers to Poland amongst others in recent years. In various cases there was an EU grant or loan involved in the new capacity.

Looking at our huge balance of payments deficit today in goods with the rest of the EU, we can see the long term impact of the EU’s damage to our manufacturing capacity.

This April’s balance of payments figures show us in heavy deficit in machinery, vehicles, electrical machinery, mineral fuels, plastics, iron and steel, wood and clothing. Last year our total goods trade deficit hit £85 billion with the rest of the EU. Between 2008 and 2015 our exports grew at 5% with the rest of the world, whilst falling with the EU.

Perhaps remain might like to answer the following questions:
Why have we suffered industrial decline and closures with production shifting elsewhere in Europe since joining the EEC?
Why do trade in surplus with the rest of the world but have such a huge deficit with the EU?
Why have we ended up importing fish, electricity, steel and much else when we used to be self sufficient?

[millmoormagic]

@MMM. I'll offer you a variant on the proven liar challenge that reduced your new chum, Monty to a blustering wreck: demonstrate where I have even implied support for brown coal and I will never post again. Fail and all you have to do is aplogise. Deal?

Fracking isn't necessarily a dirty technology and as even the Green Party acknowledges, natural gas electricity generating capacity is required for those days when solar and wind fail to turn up.

No, we didn't have an awareness of climate change back in the 80s. We had acid rain, with the burning of coal in the UK causing widespread damage to forests, lakes and rivers in Scandinavia in particular.

I just find it interesting that you would accept the running down of the mining industry and consequential loss of jobs on environmental grounds, but not on the economic ones cited by Thatcher.

Picture the scene, Kerravon sat at the side of a panarama pool, taking the occasional sip of Gin and Dubbonet while he takes in the splendid views offered, with the gentle breeze occasionally wisping through his hair sending his mind to the calm and relaxing ideas like FRACKING or the 1970's or his weird obsession with the miners!!! you're a sad sad man Kerr.

Now, i will happily say that i can't recall you mentioning brown coal, thought i'd chuck that one in for free, after all, it's a cheap and readily available fuel for profiteers, with no care for the environment, to exploit,(as per fracking) perfect for your type of rabid capitalism......you see, i'm no liar, you are though, i've asked you(this will be the 5th time i think) to search and post anything where i've been rude or impolite to you, you aint come up with the goods yet, makes you a bare faced liar old bean, bare faced.

i find it interesting that you wouldn't accept that we have to act NOW to prevent catastrophic damage to the environment, i've already stated it's a different era, why can't you accept that? Why do you want to continue to rape the earth for a few pennys of profit, at the cost of the earth? i really find that impossible to compute, are you Theresa May, no empathy whatsoever with anything or anybody, i've said this before, i really do feel sorry for you, you really do have issues....

[CASPER-64-FRANK]

Exactly that, what the f ook do you think we were fighting for, proper jobs, proper wages, not call centres or retail.....ffs how hard is that to understand, don't you get it yet, we could see this happening, it was planned this way, by the "left wing elite" you keep harping on about, how blinkered, (or stupid) do you have to be to not see what was before, and is now????

Calm down Bob. We are about to enter a period of tranquillity and Utopia is on the horizon.

Austerity has ended, the NHS is about to get billions of extra pounds in funding, we will still get tax cuts and the deficit will be reduced....

I'm wondering if the Tories are about to borrow one of Labour's money tree's from Jeremy's allotment....or perhaps there's an election coming next April / May.

Brexit is a busted flush if the Tories don't stop stabbing each other in the back or Labour decide which way they want to vote on the EU....

To top it all Farage is laughing his balls off and telling everyone that will listen that Saint Theresa has to go.....

Don't you just love Politician's

[millmoormagic]

Calm down Bob. We are about to enter a period of tranquillity and Utopia is on the horizon.

Austerity has ended, the NHS is about to get billions of extra pounds in funding, we will still get tax cuts and the deficit will be reduced....

I'm wondering if the Tories are about to borrow one of Labour's money tree's from Jeremy's allotment....or perhaps there's an election coming next April / May.

Brexit is a busted flush if the Tories don't stop stabbing each other in the back or Labour decide which way they want to vote on the EU....

To top it all Farage is laughing his balls off and telling everyone that will listen that Saint Theresa has to go.....

Don't you just love Politician's

Indeed Casper, indeed. (i am calm though!)

[millmoormagic]

It's a pity that the miner's strike has been brought up, but now the can of worms is open, here's my take.

Whatever they had achieved for working people in the past, the increasing militancy of British TUs and the failure of successive governments to address the same had caused significant damage to the UK economy in the 60s and 70s. They had made the UK an unattractive place to operate and invest and fuelled the inflationary spiral that had priced British businesses out of the market such as to fuel the unemployment that animal talks about. They had also become a political force - bringing a Heath government down and rendering Callaghan unelectable in 1979.

There was always going to be a catastrophic confrontation as soon as a government came along with the strength of will to confront the TUs.

The NUM had a game plan - turn off the lights and win. Unfortunately for them, they didn't have a plan B and Thatcher was a keen follower of the game.

Governments ultimately answer to the electorate and I think the NUM would still have had a shout if they had borne that in mind. Whether due to arrogance or a simple failure to recognise how important public sympathy was, the NUM set about alienating the country - failing to give members the national ballot it's constitution entitled them to and unleashing the mob to intimidate anyone who didn't agree with them. The rest is history.

For the record, I think Thatcher showed ruthlessness and possibly a degree of vindictiveness in her handling of the strike, but I also think she acted as someone who believed that the action of the NUM and wider TU movement represented an existential threat to her government and the UK economy. I think the electorate may have agreed with her - if memory serves me right, Thatcher increased her governments majority at the next election.

Your take is, as ever, an error ridden ignorant pro tory biased piece of bull, you have no idea, none whatsoever the feelings before the strike, after the strike, in between the strike, or about people's feelings in general, you're a very linear, sad individual in my opinion.

"Whatever they achieved" wow, what a blase don't give a crap attitude you have, some of the finest people this country has ever produced have been from the trade union and labour movement, with achievements to envy of the world, achievements you and your tory cohorts are steadily stripping away, shame on you, shame on anyone who could possibly vote for the vindictive tory party which has no concern for ordinary folk, none. Working class people voting for them are just like turkeys at xmas.....

[rolymiller]

i find it interesting that you wouldn't accept that we have to act NOW to prevent catastrophic damage to the environment, i've already stated it's a different era, why can't you accept that?

Be fair MMM he doesn't have to act he's asking me to do it for him! (Good capitalist thing to do pass the buck on to the proles when things get hard!) I have to stop eating meat and get rid of my 2 cars which I hardly use and want to get rid of anyway. Hope he's not checking, I saw a suspicious looking guy at the end of our road earlier.

[millmoormagic]

Be fair MMM he doesn't have to act he's asking me to do it for him! (Good capitalist thing to do pass the buck on to the proles when things get hard!) I have to stop eating meat and get rid of my 2 cars which I hardly use and want to get rid of anyway. Hope he's not checking, I saw a suspicious looking guy at the end of our road earlier.

I worry for him roly, he's obviously got OCD, Obtuse...Compulsive....Dishonest....

[rolymiller]

Your take is, as ever, an error ridden ignorant pro tory biased piece of bull, you have no idea, none whatsoever the feelings before the strike, after the strike, in between the strike, or about people's feelings in general, you're a very linear, sad individual in my opinion.

"Whatever they achieved" wow, what a blase don't give a crap attitude you have, some of the finest people this country has ever produced have been from the trade union and labour movement, with achievements to envy of the world....

Well I'll start with Bevan the brains behind the NHS and the envy of the world. A keen Trade Unionist in his time. No, but hang on, we can't count that because Kerr wont use it and his pals are determined to pull it apart anyway...

[Exiletyke]

Blimey, Roly, for someone who doesn't like assumptions, you do make an awful lot.

I've visited the National Mining Museum and before anyone is reduced to abusive apoplexy, no, I don't suppose the sanitised tourist version puts over an accurate impression of how unpleasant it was.

During my student days, I worked in the summer for a firm of industrial cleaning contractors. I am one of, I would imagine, the few people who knows what it's like to use a pneumatic drill to remove scale and residue inside the chimneys at Aldwarke. One of the few to suffer nose bleeds for weeks afterwards because of the acidic dust that was created. And that was one of the more pleasant tasks. Shovelling steel scale one of the least

And those 12 hour nights, with the first four being spent in the obligatory trips to The Foljambe - no wonder British Steel struggled financially.

As for working 9-5... Really? You try picking up a brief that you have never seen before at at 7pm knowing that you have to be completely on top of it for the trial starting at 10am the next day, with someone's liberty riding on it. I will make an assumption of my own, which is that you would struggle with the pressure.

I'm not sure where you think I've demonsteted a lack of empathy on this thread. Perhaps that's just another assumption of yours!

Are we expected to believe this twaddle
Many's the day when you post on here or on another board at 5,6,7 8, 9 or 10 Am even supposedly on the train & regularly in the evenings
How many days exactly do you attend this make believe job where someone's liberty is riding on you yet you still find time to write not insubstantial ramblings which in all fairness must occupy a great deal of your time through Wiki & Google & various other media