Perspective.

[champs95]

I agree that we did a very good job of handling Leeds, but I was still quite impressed with them, and I would expect them to be in the top six in May. That was a superb goal they created, and they do have a few players out.
I don't think we are going to play many teams off the park. That's not the nature of what TM has created. As you say, Champs, it's all about effort and spirit, allied to the flair and excellence of a couple of individuals.
I don't think we should underestimate the importance of Graham in all this. He didn't take the eye - like Armstrong, Reed and Evans - against Leeds, but he doesn't give defenders a moment's peace, and he creates all-important holes and gaps.
There seem to have been very mixed reactions to Brereton's performance. I thought he did all right, actually, with his inexperience showing up a couple of times, as you'd expect. I'm still not convinced he's an out-and-out striker by nature, though. All the clips I've seen of him, and his outings with us so far, suggest he likes to pick up the ball a bit deeper and run at people. Nothing wrong with that, but I wonder if he can be converted to play as a "target-man" type, when required.

Imagine we kept everyone and in Jan we went and got Grabban?
I think we'd go up this season. He will get 15-20 goals. That in our side and we go up.

I really think the young 19 year old lad is starting to come into it. He isn't the central striker, well not yet. But he is deceptively quick and extremely hard to knock off the ball. As a kid he will need a while to settle. But I can see the reason for the long term investment in the kid. Next season he will be really making a huge impact.

[champs95]

Graham is one of if not the best CF in the division. How he is playing right now.
The modern CF doesn't have to score all the goals. Dack etc do that.
He takes 2 centre halves and pulls them all over the place. He wins almost every ball. Plays in others and creates space I'm behind.
In what he brings, and his effectiveness, he is one of the best in the league.

[champs95]

I noticed the comments about the two full backs Aucks. The only 2 Leeds players missing.

I was a bit baffled. I'll tell you why.

Our normal LB Williams didn't play?
Neither did our RB Nyambe.
We had a makeshift midfielder playing RB.

Not a mention. But they had 2 who cost them the game? They must be absolute world beaters?


And I thought Leeds passed the ball about. And ran. And created 2 chances.
I thought we caused them loads of problems. Especially Armstrong. Not one of their players caused us the same problems.

We had spent 2 weeks practising corners. The reason being David Lowe had noticed Leeds keeper doesn't come off his line. He is also poor. We beat them because we knee how to beat them. Due to our manager and backroom staff.

And I thought Dack had an off day. And we didn't play that well. But looked a better side.
We invite teams who like possession, like Derby, Leeds etc to come attack us. And we play a counter attack style. And are very strong on set plays. That's why we have a better away record. Our style is better suited away.

Leeds have won 1 in 5 and are faltering. I think we will finish higher. And I don't think we'll quite make the play offs.

Hmmm, ok ...Maybe we will sneak in? But I don't think we will go up. Not this season.

Leeds are no better than us. They where 10 points ahead recently. 2 now

[AucklandRover]

I noticed the comments about the two full backs Aucks. The only 2 Leeds players missing.

I was a bit baffled. I'll tell you why.

Our normal LB Williams didn't play?
Neither did our RB Nyambe.
We had a makeshift midfielder playing RB.

Not a mention. But they had 2 who cost them the game? They must be absolute world beaters?


And I thought Leeds passed the ball about. And ran. And created 2 chances.
I thought we caused them loads of problems. Especially Armstrong. Not one of their players caused us the same problems.

We had spent 2 weeks practising corners. The reason being David Lowe had noticed Leeds keeper doesn't come off his line. He is also poor. We beat them because we knee how to beat them. Due to our manager and backroom staff.

And I thought Dack had an off day. And we didn't play that well. But looked a better side.
We invite teams who like possession, like Derby, Leeds etc to come attack us. And we play a counter attack style. And are very strong on set plays. That's why we have a better away record. Our style is better suited away.

Leeds have won 1 in 5 and are faltering. I think we will finish higher. And I don't think we'll quite make the play offs.

Hmmm, ok ...Maybe we will sneak in? But I don't think we will go up. Not this season.

Leeds are no better than us. They where 10 points ahead recently. 2 now

Some Leeds fans are saying they are in their usual decline, after a good start, but they might just be going through a bad patch. What I liked about them was their willingness to keep passing, even when under pressure. I think they might well outplay quite a few teams who don't have our work-ethic.
I think it's very hard to suggest favourites in this Division. I picked out Deby at the start of the season, and I'd probably stick with that, but I wouldn't rule Leeds out of a top-six place at all. I thought their manager's reaction was very thoughtful and balanced. He sounds like a man who knows their weaknesses. I reckon he will be looking for an Evans-type in January.
As for us, if we can hang around the top eight places until Christmas, who knows? I reckon coasting along in about eighth - just below the radar - is quite a reasonable option. We have four quite winnable games (on paper!) in January. A good run then could give us just the boost needed for a play-off place.
At some point, though, we are probably going to lose two in a row. That's when the fans will need to rally.

Incidentally, Champs, what did you think of Rodwell? I was quite impressed, but the phrase "red card waiting to happen" did cross my mind!

[champs95]

Some Leeds fans are saying they are in their usual decline, after a good start, but they might just be going through a bad patch. What I liked about them was their willingness to keep passing, even when under pressure. I think they might well outplay quite a few teams who don't have our work-ethic.
I think it's very hard to suggest favourites in this Division. I picked out Deby at the start of the season, and I'd probably stick with that, but I wouldn't rule Leeds out of a top-six place at all. I thought their manager's reaction was very thoughtful and balanced. He sounds like a man who knows their weaknesses. I reckon he will be looking for an Evans-type in January.
As for us, if we can hang around the top eight places until Christmas, who knows? I reckon coasting along in about eighth - just below the radar - is quite a reasonable option. We have four quite winnable games (on paper!) in January. A good run then could give us just the boost needed for a play-off place.
At some point, though, we are probably going to lose two in a row. That's when the fans will need to rally.

Incidentally, Champs, what did you think of Rodwell? I was quite impressed, but the phrase "red card waiting to happen" did cross my mind!

I have been impressed with Rodwell since his first game. He is next seasons Charlie Mulgrew for us.
He will actually be one of the catalysts for us going back into the Prem next season when we mount our serious challenge.
He had no right to even go for that ball down on the touchline (it was right in front of me in the Walker-steel) but he won the ball and also crunched the man. It got the crowd going, and also much more crucially, the players around him. He did give the ball away once, but other than that he was superb.

The one thinks Aucks I feel we lack in these final 10/15 mins Harry Chapman coming on.
He would have ripped Bolton and Leeds apart at that stage of the game. I still believe we will go back in for him.
And Danny needs help centrally. I don't like it when we play with Dack up top last 10 mins. The ball just keeps coming back. This goes back to your instance in the summer that we sign a player of Graham's mould. If we got that and he scored goals (like say Grabban) we'd probably go up this season. Which I feel is way too early.


...........At some point, though, we are probably going to lose two in a row. That's when the fans will need to rally........

I totally agree Auks. This is where I need help form the likes of you and Robin and Saxo. Before it happens.
The last time we lost I was defalted with all the negative comments. Hence I got all crappy with everyone.

We HAVE to be more realistic guys. We lost one game. There was talk of Mowbray losing his job and a slide down the table.

The times we really need support and belief are when we don't get the result we hoped.
The next time we lose, I do hope we react differently than the previous times.


I'm unconvinced by Leeds. I feel there is a bigger chance he will be sacked by Feb/March time when they will have completely fallen away. They quickly turn that lot with their big fan base. They just started well, like last season.
A side with a defence like that, who we caused problems for, and a very average keeper wont get promotion.
They aren't as good as us.
But the main thing, they don't have as good a manager.

[Saxo1man41]

I think the point I was trying to make is that teams as low as 17th are still very much in the top 6 running, if they come into form.

[AucklandRover]

I have been impressed with Rodwell since his first game. He is next seasons Charlie Mulgrew for us.
He will actually be one of the catalysts for us going back into the Prem next season when we mount our serious challenge.
He had no right to even go for that ball down on the touchline (it was right in front of me in the Walker-steel) but he won the ball and also crunched the man. It got the crowd going, and also much more crucially, the players around him. He did give the ball away once, but other than that he was superb.

The one thinks Aucks I feel we lack in these final 10/15 mins Harry Chapman coming on.
He would have ripped Bolton and Leeds apart at that stage of the game. I still believe we will go back in for him.
And Danny needs help centrally. I don't like it when we play with Dack up top last 10 mins. The ball just keeps coming back. This goes back to your instance in the summer that we sign a player of Graham's mould. If we got that and he scored goals (like say Grabban) we'd probably go up this season. Which I feel is way too early.


...........At some point, though, we are probably going to lose two in a row. That's when the fans will need to rally........

I totally agree Auks. This is where I need help form the likes of you and Robin and Saxo. Before it happens.
The last time we lost I was defalted with all the negative comments. Hence I got all crappy with everyone.

We HAVE to be more realistic guys. We lost one game. There was talk of Mowbray losing his job and a slide down the table.

The times we really need support and belief are when we don't get the result we hoped.
The next time we lose, I do hope we react differently than the previous times.


I'm unconvinced by Leeds. I feel there is a bigger chance he will be sacked by Feb/March time when they will have completely fallen away. They quickly turn that lot with their big fan base. They just started well, like last season.
A side with a defence like that, who we caused problems for, and a very average keeper wont get promotion.
They aren't as good as us.
But the main thing, they don't have as good a manager.

To be fair, though, TM himself commented that the missing full-back is Leeds' best player. I think there is a lot of quality in that team, and Bielsa himself seems to recognise the need for a couple of battlers to go with that. I wouldn't write them off.
On the other hand, I hesitate to make ANY predictions in this Division, which - as I said - is one of the reasons I enjoy it.
Saxo's comment above is spot-on. It's very easy to yoyo, with a couple of wins or defeats. Champs, you have complete faith in the manager. Fair enough, but you know my consistent take on this over the years: I don't believe the manager is the ONLY factor that influences the outcomes of matches. You also have to factor in: luck; refereeing; players having a bad day; spectacular goals for the opposition against the run of play; that hard-to-put-your-finger-on factor of gelling against some opposition teams, but not against others; injuries; and so on.
Even playing so well against Leeds, I would argue that we were never comfortably in control. I found the last ten minutes quite nerve-wracking - again! I just think "faith" isn't enough. Too many unpredictable factors can have an impact.
I think we're getting Swansea at the right time, which is why I've forecast a narrow win, but we could play superbly and lose one-nil. That is the nature of football.
Did you watch the Arsenal-Leicester game? Leicester could easily have been three-up in the first half-hour, only for Arsenal to play them off the park in the second half! This is what I mean.
Incidentally, I totally agree about Chapman. He is the extra ingredient that's missing.