Rams win at Liverpool

[ramAnag]

So, saying someone has had poor attitude, lack of commitment and making unprofessional comments is not having a go? I understand now, sorry, I don't have the grasp of the English language as well as you and I interpret things differently.

I wouldn’t comment on your ‘grasp of the English language’, but you’re clearly very selective and looking for a ‘fight’.
I stand by those criticisms of how he has behaved in the past...yes. What happens in the future won’t change my view of the past but you might also consider the original sentiment of, ‘spot on Andy’...’excellent player’ and ‘forgive and forget’. I don’t think those comments are open to misinterpretation, even by someone who is desperate, in looking for conflict, to do precisely that.

To clarify...my view of JB is that he is a very good footballer who, after a promising first season, has let Derby down, cost us a great deal of money and made some very ill advised and yes...’unprofessional’...remarks. Even you would struggle to argue with those three points.
All that however is now in the past. It can’t be changed, but it is what happens now and for the rest of the season that matters so...I repeat, and I’m sorry if it’s too complex for you, but my belief is that, given his apparent change of attitude and commitment we should now all get behind the guy to help with his rehabilitation as a valued member of the first team squad.

[mistaram]

[QUOTE=ramAnag;39043798]Hang on Ram, think you need to read my opening comment again before you start ‘having a
go’ yourself. It states quite clearly that, imo, Butters should be ‘up for consideration’ and I am clearly agreeing with Andy’s positive thread.
When mista responded I realised that my comment could have been misconstrued and immediately clarified.
To be clear, I think Butterfield is a talented player who has let himself down by a combination of poor attitude, a lack of commitment and making unprofessional comments. If he’s prepared to put in the effort, as he appears to be, then I will unequivocally welcome him back. Mista is quite right to suggest that having a go at Butterfield will do no one any good...I completely agree, but would suggest that you ‘look before you leap’ into your own criticism next time.[/QUO

RA I didn't for one minute think you were having a go Definitely was never aimed at you I was just saying in general not anybody in here I've been at matches and heard fans blame Butterfield for every defeat weve ever had

[ramAnag]

[QUOTE=mistaram;39043884]

Hang on Ram, think you need to read my opening comment again before you start ‘having a
go’ yourself. It states quite clearly that, imo, Butters should be ‘up for consideration’ and I am clearly agreeing with Andy’s positive thread.
When mista responded I realised that my comment could have been misconstrued and immediately clarified.
To be clear, I think Butterfield is a talented player who has let himself down by a combination of poor attitude, a lack of commitment and making unprofessional comments. If he’s prepared to put in the effort, as he appears to be, then I will unequivocally welcome him back. Mista is quite right to suggest that having a go at Butterfield will do no one any good...I completely agree, but would suggest that you ‘look before you leap’ into your own criticism next time.[/QUO

RA I didn't for one minute think you were having a go Definitely was never aimed at you I was just saying in general not anybody in here I've been at matches and heard fans blame Butterfield for every defeat weve ever had

Thanks mista...seems someone just has too much time on his hands today.

[Ram59]

If we're forgiving and forgetting, why can't we just talk about his current promising form and commitment in the u23s, instead of raking up the past?

That's my whole point, if a new signing or youngster was putting these performances in, we would be looking forward to him breaking into the first team squad and not just giving him support until he makes a mistake. It happens with other players, some get away with it while others, like Keogh, seem to be hammered for every mistake.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Butterfield has become to many a sort of "Snowball like figure" to cite animal farm. He is blamed for everything that has gone wrong for us, sometimes with a little justification, but not to the extent of having encouraged the sheep to urinate in the drinking water pool.

There is a decent player in there hiding, maybe he has let himself down, maybe he has been mismanaged, certainly he has done little to convince me that he can return to his better days, but lets hope he can and encourage him. Where he would fit in, Im not sure, that's not my job, but we are paying for him and getting him back into first team contention will, if nothing else, maybe increase his value if we hope to sell before contract expires

[ramAnag]

If we're forgiving and forgetting, why can't we just talk about his current promising form and commitment in the u23s, instead of raking up the past?

That's my whole point, if a new signing or youngster was putting these performances in, we would be looking forward to him breaking into the first team squad and not just giving him support until he makes a mistake. It happens with other players, some get away with it while others, like Keogh, seem to be hammered for every mistake.

Because the whole point of the thread is that we might have two experienced players ‘pushing for a place’ again. They are not ‘youngsters’ breaking through are they? They are one - Thorne - a massive plus if he ever recovers from his appalling run of injuries and two - Butterfield - who’s exile seems to have been largely self imposed. You can’t compare them with a ‘youngster’ breaking through and I feel your ‘whole point’ was that you were looking for a spat where non existed.
Not at all sure where Keogh fits in. He get’s hammered by some but not by me and the contrast between him and Butterfield is marked.
Where the latter has sulked and moaned, Keogh has - in contrast - been roundly abused, made a target of the boo boys, dropped, stripped of the captaincy...but never have I heard him say a word against Derby County or any of the six or seven (?) managers he has played under.
I know which attitude I prefer but what’s done is done and if JB can return to the fold and perform to the standard we all know him to be capable of then good luck to him and so much the better for all of us.

[mistaram]

If we're forgiving and forgetting, why can't we just talk about his current promising form and commitment in the
u23s, instead of raking up the past?

That's my whole point, if a new signing or youngster was putting these performances in, we would be looking forward to him breaking into the first team squad and not just giving him support until he makes a mistake. It happens with other players, some get away with it while others, like Keogh, seem to be hammered for every mistake.

Ram. Spot on mate