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Thread: How much longer ?

  1. #1
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    How much longer ?

    How much longer are the fans expected to put up with this crap, an academy producing players that are nowhere near good enough for league 2 football, the board starving the manager of the required funds to put a side that is even close enough to challenge in this league but quite happy to pour money down the drain on an outdated academy model. What an earth are we doing allowing Porter to trigger a 1 year extension his legs have gone now !! he will be on a Zimmer frame in another 12 months not including the wages we will waste on him for the privilege. Mr Artell please can you stop playing just 2 central midfield players we are getting overrun get a third man in the middle of the park ffs drop Kirk or Ainley I am not bothered which they are both 1 game wonders. Please in January get a striker in that knows where the onion bag is or give the young lad Reilly a chance the best finisher at the club apparently !!the rest of the forwards currently on our books could not finish their dinner. Now for the defence Nolan and Hunt are the best center halves at the club closely followed by NG why the f..k are we playing RAY crap has always been crap get rid. Pickering and Whelan as full backs. Richards in goal for me all day long far better than Garratt.

    Rant over I would welcome any replies be gentle with me I am a very frustrated Crewe fan that cant understand why we are persisting with the current business model and playing utter crap on the pitch, time the board moved on.

  2. #2
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    Re Porter, agree, but better than Bowery!
    Re Ray and Garret, strongly disagree. Garret excellent v Bury and Grimsby. No chance with first 2 v Mansfield
    Re dropping either of the one game wonders, agree
    Re getting over run in midfield, agree
    Re Reilly, agree, give him a chance.
    Re Whelan, on the fence on that one.

  3. #3
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    Just seen the first goal. For me definitely no foul, and ball probably over the line.

  4. #4
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    Comical football, Finney proving how far below the standard required he is, Ray Sunday league defending as usual !! Garratt charging out of his goal like a headless chicken woeful football. Not quite sure what Artell has this bunch of below average footballers doing on the training pitch in the week but what ever it is it is not working. Can’t score can’t defend we all now what that is a recipe for. I think fortunately for Crewe there are 2 teams who are worse than Crewe I feel sorry for their fans because we are abject at best.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wartman View Post
    How much longer are the fans expected to put up with this crap, an academy producing players that are nowhere near good enough for league 2 football, the board starving the manager of the required funds to put a side that is even close enough to challenge in this league but quite happy to pour money down the drain on an outdated academy model. What an earth are we doing allowing Porter to trigger a 1 year extension his legs have gone now !! he will be on a Zimmer frame in another 12 months not including the wages we will waste on him for the privilege. Mr Artell please can you stop playing just 2 central midfield players we are getting overrun get a third man in the middle of the park ffs drop Kirk or Ainley I am not bothered which they are both 1 game wonders. Please in January get a striker in that knows where the onion bag is or give the young lad Reilly a chance the best finisher at the club apparently !!the rest of the forwards currently on our books could not finish their dinner. Now for the defence Nolan and Hunt are the best center halves at the club closely followed by NG why the f..k are we playing RAY crap has always been crap get rid. Pickering and Whelan as full backs. Richards in goal for me all day long far better than Garratt.

    Rant over I would welcome any replies be gentle with me I am a very frustrated Crewe fan that cant understand why we are persisting with the current business model and playing utter crap on the pitch, time the board moved on.
    Those comments could have been made many times over the last few years but decisions will have to be made soon by the Board as when was the last time we received a significant transfer fee to keep the academy going in its present form? 5 years? That is around 4 million pounds cost with almost nothing to show for it on the pitch. So the model is broken. Surely they will see many many clubs our size and less playing in a higher league and in higher positions in this league and none have Cat 2 academies or even no academy.

    I would guess Aainly and others wish they had left the club in the summer and our league position won't help their situation unless we get a turn around soon. Whether changing the manager will make a difference I'm not sure?

    I can't see the current board continuing when they will be having to stump up millions to keep it all going? So I expect a decision soon but it will cost the club plenty when they have to sack people at RH...

    So my question to you all is who now is in our team that will generate the next big fee? And what will that likely to be..

    I didn't think Crewe teams over the years would get beaten very easily by the likes of Mansfield and Northampton!

    What have all these teams got that we haven't? DA is sounding more like Steve Davies every day with his after match comments..IF only!

    Just my opinion but if a million pound academy can't produce a squad of players to compete in the lowest league then it's surely a waste of money that is sorely needed on the first team.

    Mr Bowler and the Board, are you there??????? Surely they have noticed the gates going down and down?
    Last edited by MikeSB; 04-11-2018 at 04:04 PM.

  6. #6
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    In the last five years from memory, and happy to be corrected.
    Fees received for Cooper, Colclough and Clayton
    Sell on fees for Westwood and Hanley.
    Not quite "nothing"

  7. #7
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    Hi Mike

    If they sold Kirk, jones, Ainley and Pickering all together they would not get a million pound !! The academy model is no longer fit for purpose

    If you were running a business that was consistently losing half a million a year you would make changes, but our aging out of touch board carry on regardless. The first team budget is knowhere near enough to build a competitive team and the players promoted from the academy to the first team are average at best, so it does not take a genius to work out that the first team is going to struggle and if you doubt this just look back over the last 4 seasons and tell me I am wrong. Currently and I suggest forever there is not going to be a 1 million plus deal for a player from this club, the clubs that we once touted our talent to have their own far better funded academies to get their young talent from and if you doubt me again was it not Man City u21 side that rolled into town a few weeks ago to prove the case in point. We currently have a squad of average over hyped ex academy players:

    Garratt
    Ray
    Lowery
    Jones
    Ainley
    Kirk
    Finney

    All of these players are consistently in our first team and are never going to get a big money move, and why because they are average over hyped players with average ability. Add to them the over the hill Porter and Miller and sadly Green who had to work far to hard in a poor midfield for a man of his age and got injured in the process.

    Ryan Colclough a lad of undoubted talent who a few years ago probably would have commanded 500,000 was sold for I believe 150,000 so desperate are the board to get some funds in, I would probably think it cost the club more than that to get him to that stage. George Cooper another player of undoubted talent I believe sold for 250,000 and again I would suggest cost us more to get him to that stage of his career. So with those 2 examples alone it clearly shows a failed business model that is going to take this club out of the professional leagues and probably never to return if not disappear forever.

    Unless the club downgrades the academy to a level it can afford without reducing the first team budget we are a season or two away from oblivion however if the board are so convinced that the academy is still the best way forward for this club I am happy for them to fully fund this folly out of their own pockets.

  8. #8
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    You quote fees for certain players, are these guesstimates?

  9. #9
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    150,000 was the fee declared by the buying club Wigan so must assume that to be accurate; likewise Peterborough suggested in their annual accounts a fee of somewhere near to that figure for a transfer so must assume that to be for Cooper.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmyboldon View Post
    In the last five years from memory, and happy to be corrected.
    Fees received for Cooper, Colclough and Clayton
    Sell on fees for Westwood and Hanley.
    Not quite "nothing"
    Yes, I know that but as someone just posted, no where near a million pounds all together if you disregard the sell on for Westwood when he went to Burnley and our business model was surely designed around the time when we expected players to get to a standard that PL clubs would pay the millions we got for Ashton and Powell. Surely the Board know this though don't they?

    It was always my gripe that at least 50% of all incoming transfer fees should have gone ie ringfenced for the first team and not all to the academy and that would have given us a fair few million to help stay in L1 at least.

    We get sick of hearing how low our first team budget is and how come Bury can afford the wages of Maynard etc? How did Accrington get all those players without an academy?

    I think it's pretty obvious that most players coming from our academy over the last few years are not good enough for the PL or championship, never mind L2 and there are hundreds of players looking for clubs when we can see them here and now and not what we hope they may be in ten years time which is so pathetic imo. I also get tired of McGarry etc bragging the team has all these academy graduates then to get beat badly by teams we were far better when we were in the old fourth division...

    We are back to square one almost but with a main stand a quarter full... Nice one John!
    Last edited by MikeSB; 04-11-2018 at 08:28 PM.

  11. #11
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    ok Well I heard £250 k but as you say if Wigan declared that figure for Colclough then that must be correct. Perhaps you could send the web site where they declared it. I also heard £300 k for Cooper so a website for that as my figures are only hearsay
    Perhaps you can also post Walsalls costs for their category 3 academy

    Cheers

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by out0lunch View Post
    ok Well I heard £250 k but as you say if Wigan declared that figure for Colclough then that must be correct. Perhaps you could send the web site where they declared it. I also heard £300 k for Cooper so a website for that as my figures are only hearsay
    Perhaps you can also post Walsalls costs for their category 3 academy

    Cheers
    I would have to do another search on Walsall's Cat 3 academy but remember at the time thinking that Cat3 was pretty good actually with quite a huge subsidy from the FA/PL and something like Walsall contributing around 200K and when we are contributing 760K that is a huge difference which would have allowed more money for the first team while still attracting youngsters to their local club. I have yet to be convinced Cat 2 would have attracted better local kids when we have no evidence that they have even gone to the PL Cat 1 academies although there may be the odd exception.

    The problem essentially was Dario who was part of the FA committee that came up with all the rules and categories of the new system and so why he wanted the highest he could get. And has he was a significant figure in academy coaching that sounds reasonable in a way. I remember asking him one time why the club didn't go for Cat 3 and he said it was so the youngsters could get to play more PL academy matches although not in their league and probably more significant was he said Cat 2 was 'cost neutral' but we know that was at the time when we were still paying upwards of 500K for RH per year and so cost neutral compared with what would be accepted today. I couldn't quite figure how the RH costs didn't come down significantly when we had bought all the fixed assets?

    The club will surely know the minimum figures while still retaining an academy but as I said many clubs in L1 don't have or have got rid of their academies while still having local kids coming in like we did when we had Shavington many moons ago..

    Its the same old question about how many coaches are needed when it was only a couple including Dario when we were quite successful and concentrating on older teens and incoming transfers. Cat 2 means we have to have x number of coaches and need to coach very young kids which is way beyond our size in my humble opinion at least..

  13. #13
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    Mike I wasn't asking you for the sites it was wartman who was quoting figures
    You and I have had a few discussions re RH and we both beg to differ

  14. #14
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    You see people quote figures but can't show how they arrived at them. Guesstemates !!!

  15. #15
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    Hi out0lunch

    Please see the below link for the George Cooper figure Cheshire live say in an interview with Dave Artell that a figure of £250000 for gorgeous George. I can’t find the Colclough story but I am fairly sure it was mentioned in coverage of his court appearances, where it said Colclough who recently signed for Wigan for an initial £150000. In reply to your comment I do try to use accurate information in my posts or there is no use in posting.



    https://www.cheshire-live.co.uk/spor...dmits-15273019

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wartman View Post
    150,000 was the fee declared by the buying club Wigan so must assume that to be accurate; likewise Peterborough suggested in their annual accounts a fee of somewhere near to that figure for a transfer so must assume that to be for Cooper.
    It was just that you said re clubs accounts so wondered if you could give the web address so I can have a look
    As you say and I agree accurate info is always best

  17. #17
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    Didnít we also get money for George Nunn and Trinkett Smith?

  18. #18
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    Certainly Nunn £300000 was quoted I think for him, not sure but that figure is in my mind. Trinket Smith not a clue. Do you think with the exception of NG who in my opinion is the best player at the club by a long way, there is anybody who is going to bring in some much needed money in January ?

  19. #19
    As a regular attendee of games many years ago but now residing in the potteries, I purchased a membership card card at the beginning of the season and attended the home opener. This was followed by Newport away which was hopefully going to be followed by a few more games in my attempt to start edging towards completing the 92 grounds again. Since Newport away I haven't been to a game. I could write you a two page rant about what is wrong with the club, some of which has already been covered. The club is absolutely clueless in about most areas of it's operation. Its turned into a mickey mouse organisation which is summed up by the drivel which comes out of Artells mouth. He really is a comical act in himself. Very little is going to change. People can only decide themselves if enough is enough, but with all respect to those that still attend they do so through habit and are not likely to change. As somebody has said "we are making bad sides look good"

  20. #20
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    Weíre still hamstrung until Hassal is gone.

    A lot of changes need to be made to make this club successful again but I do believe Artell isnít far off.

    Young players are being developed and given chances , older pros are being brought in to supplement the gaps.

    My only real gripe with Artell is that we seem to lack a plan B some weeks and we do seem to make the same tactical mistakes repeatedly. The most obvious one being our midfield is lacking energy when itís Jones and Wintle yet weíre sticking with it doggedly.

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