Beggars

[Leicesterbaggie]

A well written and succinct post. I am of that 'certain age' and remember thinking at the time that we were joining a six nation trading community, which it was at the time of its conception. I never suspected it would turn into the corrupt institution that it has become.

What I find unbelievable is how Remainers complain that we were told a pack of lies, when let's be honest, both sides told 'porkies'. The biggest problem is that too many Remainers have a vested interest in staying in. And there lies the problem.

[goodlordmurphy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uKbIkYGsIg

[talkSAFT]

A well written and succinct post. I am of that 'certain age' and remember thinking at the time that we were joining a six nation trading community, which it was at the time of its conception. I never suspected it would turn into the corrupt institution that it has become.

What I find unbelievable is how Remainers complain that we were told a pack of lies, when let's be honest, both sides told 'porkies'. The biggest problem is that too many Remainers have a vested interest in staying in. And there lies the problem.

There's 'porkies' and 'lies'. Johnson (who, a few months earlier, had not raised a viewpoint either way) saw Brexit as an opportunity for self-promotion.
GB paid £350m a week Gross to EU, but the NETT figure was £200m. So only a halfwit would claim that 350 would, instead, be paid into NHS.
Either he's a complete halfwit who made a very worrying schoolboy error (and if he did, why on Earth was he given a Cabinet job, which he cocked-up,).........or a bullsh*tting b*stard.

(ps I'm no Remainer.)

[stripes39]

Hello 123.

I don’t mean to be facetious but if the referendum was completely flawed on the grounds that people were lied to and misled, then every local and national election I’ve ever voted in could be described as the same. So by using your frame of reference for what is or isn’t democratic we’d need to rerun every election since I turned eigh**** in 1986. Well it’s only fair really, I didn’t agree with a lot of the outcomes. Out of nothing more than idle curiosity would you have been so keen on a second referendum had the majority voted to remain?

Flipping things on their head you’ve absolutely no idea whether others voted remain for the exact same reasons you did either. Did they do so with a desire for greater integration with the EU at some future time, trepidation over the unknown or just a willingness to avoid rocking the boat? Did you all vote for a future European Army ala Juncker’s ideal? Did you all vote for whatever crazy idea pops out of some EU Commission quango at some future point? No, you probably didn’t. Is that anti-democratic too then?

I’m pulling your leg and playing devil’s advocate here, but you may all as well have voted for all those different things as you don’t know for certain what the EU’s agenda is going forward. There is more than an element of the unknown in any vote and subsequent outcome. You state people are more informed now but are they really? Or have they just been force fed more of the same from a different latrine thus becoming even more entrenched in other people’s sh it? And if the British electorate are now more informed, what will your response be if the result once again goes against your hopes, dreams and future aspirations?

Only the naive or stupid would suggest there’ll be no short to medium term issues untangling ourselves from the EU and securing future trade deals. For anyone to suggest it’s going to be plain sailing across an open and calm sea would be ridiculous. But what about the long term outcomes, will we be better off in future? Or will we definitely be worse off? Who knows? Would we definitely be better off in the long term if we were to remain? I don’t know, do you? I may use this here internet thingy and Google translate to ask a few Italians and Greeks what they think.

What I fervently believe though is the EU should never have expanded to the number of nations currently under its umbrella. Rather than diversifying our collective economic portfolio, I believe they’re diluting the economic gene pool. For me it isn’t a case of whether we should leave, but whether we’ve left it too late for me to see sufficient long term gains in my lifetime.

Toodle pip and all of the very best chap .

Good post 68. Very well put

[WBA123]

A well written and succinct post. I am of that 'certain age' and remember thinking at the time that we were joining a six nation trading community, which it was at the time of its conception. I never suspected it would turn into the corrupt institution that it has become.

What I find unbelievable is how Remainers complain that we were told a pack of lies, when let's be honest, both sides told 'porkies'. The biggest problem is that too many Remainers have a vested interest in staying in. And there lies the problem.

When someone raises a point to say 'well both sides lied'...that gives even more credence to have another vote doesn't it.

In my opinion the Remain side forecasted potential consequences, which was difficult because of the uncertainty. But the Leave camp just out and out lied.

And believe me when I say, that the super rich will have a very vested interest in us leaving the EU rather than remaining, so as to privatise our NHS and for the UK to become a tax haven.

[Greavseywolf]

just a couple of things from me

first ..the biggest lie of all has come from the moaning fuckers who said
that they accepted the the referendum result.

second...what we have learnt from the last couple of years , is that whilst the eu may be our trading
partner, is is definitely not our friend.

[albion68]

If Brexit goes ahead, there will be more beggars on the streets than there are now. It is just ludicrous to go ahead with this shambles. As much as I dislike referenda, we badly need another vote to stop the madness. A general election would be a waste of time as both main parties are just as divided over the issue. Dump Brexit.

you still trying to overturn democracy except you lost or do you and the rest of anti democratic remainers want a best of three .

[WBA123]

you still trying to overturn democracy except you lost or do you and the rest of anti democratic remainers want a best of three .

How do you overturn democracy by having a democratic vote......?

Stop repeating the crap you read in the newspapers and think for yourself.

[albion68]

just a couple of things from me

first ..the biggest lie of all has come from the moaning fuckers who said
that they accepted the the referendum result.

second...what we have learnt from the last couple of years , is that whilst the eu may be our trading
partner, is is definitely not our friend.

. Spot on greavsey,back in the day the French and Germans fought tooth and nail to keep us out, no friends of ours de Gaulle if that’s how you spell it ,in private detested us brits.watchout for scaremongering at its best in the next couple of weeks .P.S how many big organisations and manufacturing business are owned by foreigners.

[stripes39]

. Spot on greavsey,back in the day the French and Germans fought tooth and nail to keep us out, no friends of ours de Gaulle if that’s how you spell it ,in private detested us brits.watchout for scaremongering at its best in the next couple of weeks .P.S how many big organisations and manufacturing business are owned by foreigners.

Quite correct Albion68. Britain applied twice to join the EEC but De Gaulle was instrumental in blocking it as he knew Britain who had very efficient agriculture wouldn't accept the Common Agriculture and Fisheries policies which favoured other states subsidising inefficient French farmers. Once it was in place and could not be overturned, Heath joined at the first opportunity.

Papers released under the 30-year rule show that, at the end of June 1961, the Cabinet accepted their urging that, for “presentational” reasons, this goal of a federal europe should not be revealed to the public or Parliament. They should be misled into believing that British entry was into a “Common Market”, concerned just with trade and jobs.

In 1970, when Heath was Prime Minister, the public was repeatedly told that British entry would involve “no essential loss of sovereignty”; however a secret Foreign Office paper, released 30 years later, shows that the government decided to conceal that this was untrue.

Much is out there in the public domain to support many instances like this where the truth was concealed and the electorate of Europe were fed lies or had the real intentions of the EU withheld.