How to deal with awkward journalists

[sinkov]

"Now reality is happening and it looks like the deal about to be unveiled will satisfy neither leavers or remainers. We were mis-sold Brexit. Their version of Brexit never existed - surely that much is now clear?"

It appears from the above 59/60 that you believe that the dog's breakfast of a deal we are going to be presented with is the optimum deal, the best that our government could possibly achieve. Once again I'm wondering what planet you live on, you don't really believe that do you ?

This is what was promised by our Remainer Prime Minister AFTER the referendum, this is what our government told us was achievable in the negotiations.

An end to the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice in Britain.
No new barriers to living and doing business within our own Union.
We will ensure we can control immigration to Britain from Europe.
We do not seek membership of the single market. Instead we seek the greatest possible access to it through a new, comprehensive, bold and ambitious free trade agreement.
The days of Britain making vast contributions to the European Union every year will end.
Britain must be free to strike trade agreements with countries from outside the European Union.
I do not want Britain to be part of the Common Commercial Policy and I do not want us to be bound by the Common External Tariff. These are the elements of the Customs Union that prevent us from striking our own comprehensive trade agreements with other countries.

None of the above could have had any bearing on the referendum vote, this is what a Remain PM promised us on behalf of a Remain government, AFTER the votes had been counted, and they had had plenty of time to assess the situation and decide what was do-able.. If the deal falls far short of that it's nothing to do with Brexiteers, they have been comprehensively shunted into the sidings, this is a result of Remainer's taking charge. It's their mess, it's your mess 59/60, it's not what I voted for, it's the soft Brexit you wanted.

[1959_60]

Sinkov, the bit below in quotation marks, which Theresa May included in her speech, was never, ever going to be acceptable to the EU.

This would have given the UK a notable advantage over the European states still in the EU. It sounded great to the British public but it was simply pie in the sky.

If YOU were negotiating on the EU side you would have dismissed it out of hand. Otherwise every other EU state would be asking for a similar deal.

And please don't think that I am happy with the deal currently on the table.
Britain would be diminished. We would have to obey EU law without having a say in it - totally unacceptable. Even Boris admitted that we would be better off staying in the EU than to steam ahead with this deal, and for once, I agree with him.
Please tell me how this deal would, in any way, be better for the UK than the deal we currently have in being a full member of the EU.


"We do not seek membership of the single market. Instead we seek the greatest possible access to it through a new, comprehensive, bold and ambitious free trade agreement.
The days of Britain making vast contributions to the European Union every year will end.
Britain must be free to strike trade agreements with countries from outside the European Union.
I do not want Britain to be part of the Common Commercial Policy and I do not want us to be bound by the Common External Tariff. These are the elements of the Customs Union that prevent us from striking our own comprehensive trade agreements with other countries."

[sinkov]

What you have highlighted 59/60 is the shape of the trade deal which we haven't even begun to negotiate yet. All of it is achievable and has not been dismissed out of hand by the EU. We could have been negotiating this alongside the withdrawal agreement and thus solving the Irish border problem at the same time. But the EU refused. Ho hum, I wonder why ?

And yes I agree, we cannot accept this capitulation, I can't call it a deal, and yes I agree we would be worse off than we were before as members of the EU. Now we see the folly of not making preparations to leave without a deal and trade under WTO terms. Brexiteesrs wanted this to be done, it was pointed out time and again the stupidity of not making preparations for an unacceptable deal, but our Remainer Prime Minister and our Remainer Chancellor said no, they knew better. All entirely predictable, and predicted, And none of it the fault of Brexiteers, they wouldn't have allowed us to end up in this situation, and said so often, but were denigrated as extremist little englanders out to make trouble, sidelined, mocked and ignored. But clearly they were right, surely you can see that now 59/60 ?

[Supersub6]

sinkov, you could be right or you may be wrong. None of us really know what has transpired at the meetings between the EU and the UK however, at the end of the day, the EU has to keep 27 member nations happy whilst we try to obtain the best deal for us.
It was never going to be as easy as Boris, Farage et al made out in their campaigning because we would already have been committed to certain projects with all sorts of legal obligations.
There were never any clear plans, just promises off the top of the head from various politicians. Consequently we have never been in a strong negotiating position. The EU could see that there were deep divisions, not just within the goverment, but also within the opposition and also within the population of the UK and they have been playing on that fact.
It is a mess and has been right from the decision to hold the referendum but I shall not lose any sleep over it.
The people have spoken!

[1959_60]

The truth is, we were sold a land of milk and honey where, not only would we get a favorable deal with the EU without paying into it, but countries round the world would be flocking round us to offer us brilliant deals.

The truth was always that the EU couldn't allow us to end up with a better deal than the remaining EU states.
If we were EU negotiators, you wouldn't, I wouldn't and no way would the EU.

I predicted that when the truth hit home, these people would blame the EU for being inflexible and unmoving. But this was ALWAYS going to be the outcome. like I said, if we were EU negotiators then we would not allow a state leaving the EU to end up with a better deal than those staying in it. Surely that is self evident?

For once I believe Theresa May. This is the best deal we can get.

Which leaves us between a rock and a hard place.

Accept and we will have to obey EU laws without a say in making them. Northern Ireland would be treated differently than the rest of the UK. The status quo is surely better than this?

Reject the deal and simply leave. Not many people want this outcome but it could become the reality.

In these circumstances, with Parliament reaching an en passe, I think a Peoples Vote is the only viable option. (Or a general Election which only Corbyn wants)

[The Bedlington Terrier]

I have never, ever seen the point of simply looping the loop and repeating the same old nonsense.

Ordinary people simply posting their opinions over two years on this forum, have realised we are facing a draconian problem and the consequences will be dire unless we have juxta positioned ourselves into an appropriate solution to the problem. Our politicians across all political spectrums have failed us totally. The ballot box at a new General Election seems to be the only reasonable alternative.

Hopefully, whoever wins it will have a clear mandate to govern and not rely on brokered deals to find a real, honest and final solution to this Cameron inspired nightmare.

[footy_le_bordel]

"Now reality is happening and it looks like the deal about to be unveiled will satisfy neither leavers or remainers. We were mis-sold Brexit. Their version of Brexit never existed - surely that much is now clear?"

It appears from the above 59/60 that you believe that the dog's breakfast of a deal we are going to be presented with is the optimum deal, the best that our government could possibly achieve. Once again I'm wondering what planet you live on, you don't really believe that do you ?

This is what was promised by our Remainer Prime Minister AFTER the referendum, this is what our government told us was achievable in the negotiations.

An end to the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice in Britain.
No new barriers to living and doing business within our own Union.
We will ensure we can control immigration to Britain from Europe.
We do not seek membership of the single market. Instead we seek the greatest possible access to it through a new, comprehensive, bold and ambitious free trade agreement.
The days of Britain making vast contributions to the European Union every year will end.
Britain must be free to strike trade agreements with countries from outside the European Union.
I do not want Britain to be part of the Common Commercial Policy and I do not want us to be bound by the Common External Tariff. These are the elements of the Customs Union that prevent us from striking our own comprehensive trade agreements with other countries.

None of the above could have had any bearing on the referendum vote, this is what a Remain PM promised us on behalf of a Remain government, AFTER the votes had been counted, and they had had plenty of time to assess the situation and decide what was do-able.. If the deal falls far short of that it's nothing to do with Brexiteers, they have been comprehensively shunted into the sidings, this is a result of Remainer's taking charge. It's their mess, it's your mess 59/60, it's not what I voted for, it's the soft Brexit you wanted.

these brexiteers might disagree. although, they do flip-flop a bit so who knows!

[Supersub6]

Let's all play rock, paper, scissors to decide whether or not to accept the deal. Best of three---obviously

[The Bedlington Terrier]

Let's all play rock, paper, scissors to decide whether or not to accept the deal. Best of three---obviously

Can we then have another vote on it Supersub6 if I don't like the outcome?

[Supersub6]

Can we then have another vote on it Supersub6 if I don't like the outcome?

Noooo ---just another game ---best of three again!