Topics slot for Small Portions of Despair & Enlightenment .........

[MrsORichSenior]

Aww, and I was thinking you didn't care!

Summing up your post.....the owner can charge as much as he likes, because he knows the loyalty of the fan base will overcome any reluctance to part with the money. Fine, but please don't spout platitudes about how much the club values its fan base (local and not so local), when there is precious little evidence of it in the actions taken.

Of course the club needs to market itself, and of course additional revenue is always welcome (although I suspect whatever is generated next year if the club does visit Oz is unlikely to fund our march to the PL ), but I respectfully disagree with the comment about discounting. There should be nothing wrong with making particular matches, or certain items of apparel (not the clearance stuff!) more affordable, on a strictly limited basis. A gesture to the loyal fans that have helped Leeds to survive when the "management" were making great efforts to spend us into oblivion is not only sensible, it would cement that loyalty even further (just what is going to happen when we get to the PL and the club reviews its pricing policy?)

And as for Hammers not filling a ground, wouldn't it be great if we had their attendance figures AND a ground that could take even more?

https://www.footballwebpages.co.uk/w...ed/attendances

MOT

A Happy Hammer are you then my love ?

Your having a laugh .................. so you'll be happy to pay their average Cat A price at ER when we go up to PL for your trip(s) up North then.

https://www.whufc.com/tickets/ticket...on/plan-prices
You'll note that the Hammers froze their season tickets price like us this season but they were rather 'tasty prices'.......

https://www.whufc.com/news/articles/...ng-list-update


Mmmm, so London Stadium - Decent capacity but ****e view & horrible uncouth local fans make a day out at Millwall look appealing .........

Over 50,000 season tickets sold and allocations for away fans between 3,000/5,000 - but still 4,000 empty seats if away fans don't turn up.

Noted today they've upped the capacity to 60,000 to hopefully grab London's day tripper neutrals for a day of abuse,coin throwing and rip off cold jellied eels...... plus being squashed in like sardines on the tube at great expense getting there is not my idea of the perfect date for you and I to recreate Brief Encounter regardless of you looking like a modern day Trevor Howard.

For their loaded locals they charge a hefty £1155 per season.

For the rest their Adult seats start from £320 (not including their compulsory membership charge) and don't include a pair of binoculars which you'll need to view the action on/ off the pitch - body armour & safety helmet are extra too but essential............ of course to sample 'no atmosphere' and be deafened by 'crowd enhancement' through loud speakers your seat price goes up too - luvlly jubbly !

Oh,by the way .....

7.Bournemouth’s most expensive season ticket costs £950

7.Manchester United’s most expensive season ticket costs £950

6. Leicester’s most expensive season ticket costs £1065

5. Fulham’s most expensive season ticket costs £1149

4. West Ham’s most expensive season ticket costs £1155

3. Chelsea’s most expensive season ticket costs £1250

2. Arsenal’s most expensive season ticket costs £1768

1. Tottenham’s most expensive season ticket costs £2200

I'm pleased that YOU as a UK Tax payer are happy to have contributed towards their gaff and are happy for 'em to take advantage of you/others again and again and again...............

As ever lots of hugs & kisses - Xxxxxxxxxxx

MOT

[WTF11]

A Happy Hammer are you then my love ?

Your having a laugh .................. so you'll be happy to pay their average Cat A price at ER when we go up to PL for your trip(s) up North then.

https://www.whufc.com/tickets/ticket...on/plan-prices
You'll note that the Hammers froze their season tickets price like us this season but they were rather 'tasty prices'.......

https://www.whufc.com/news/articles/...ng-list-update


Mmmm, so London Stadium - Decent capacity but ****e view & horrible uncouth local fans make a day out at Millwall look appealing .........

Over 50,000 season tickets sold and allocations for away fans between 3,000/5,000 - but still 4,000 empty seats if away fans don't turn up.

Noted today they've upped the capacity to 60,000 to hopefully grab London's day tripper neutrals for a day of abuse,coin throwing and rip off cold jellied eels...... plus being squashed in like sardines on the tube at great expense getting there is not my idea of the perfect date for you and I to recreate Brief Encounter regardless of you looking like a modern day Trevor Howard.

For their loaded locals they charge a hefty £1155 per season.

For the rest their Adult seats start from £320 (not including their compulsory membership charge) and don't include a pair of binoculars which you'll need to view the action on/ off the pitch - body armour & safety helmet are extra too but essential............ of course to sample 'no atmosphere' and be deafened by 'crowd enhancement' through loud speakers your seat price goes up too - luvlly jubbly !

Oh,by the way .....

7.Bournemouth’s most expensive season ticket costs £950

7.Manchester United’s most expensive season ticket costs £950

6. Leicester’s most expensive season ticket costs £1065

5. Fulham’s most expensive season ticket costs £1149

4. West Ham’s most expensive season ticket costs £1155

3. Chelsea’s most expensive season ticket costs £1250

2. Arsenal’s most expensive season ticket costs £1768

1. Tottenham’s most expensive season ticket costs £2200

I'm pleased that YOU as a UK Tax payer are happy to have contributed towards their gaff and are happy for 'em to take advantage of you/others again and again and again...............

As ever lots of hugs & kisses - Xxxxxxxxxxx

MOT

Have I touched a raw nerve?

Did I at any time suggest I wanted to support Spam, liked their stadium, wanted or approved of part-funding it, or the journey to/from (or jellied eels (cold or otherwise), or defended their ST prices? Err..no.

I was responding to your comment about them not filling their stadium (hardly surprising) even though their on-the day prices are competitive with what we pay for Championship football, nothing more, nothing less. I can't afford/justify a season ticket, even less so I suspect when we get promoted and on top of the obscene amounts of TV money, the club will want to ensure they "compete" with other PL clubs on ticket pricing), and couldn't even if we were in fantasy land and ER was in London not Leeds, but I would love to be able to do so for more matches at ER on an "ad-hoc" basis, but there is no structure that recognises "occasional" ER attendance. Neither does the club offer any kind of material recognition in terms of pricing of tickets for "walk-up" supporters, which is what my original point referred to, and which IS part of the SPAM pricing offer (and for others in and around London, even Millwall! see link;

https://www.millwallfc.co.uk/siteass...scheme-faq.pdf

I'm not suggesting any of this is perfect, but both those I have illustrated go some to recognise/encourage those who can't afford a season ticket, and who can't get to every match, something Leeds has consistently failed to do, and I suspect that is entirely down to maximising revenue, fine as far as it goes, but smacks of hypocrisy when the clubs statements about the regard in which they hold supporters are made.

How about the club develop a "carnet" ticket offering, like many rail companies are, where tickets for a number of games are bought, but not specific games, just when a supporter can attend (and maybe using more than one ticket if attending as a couple)? Ah, but then the club wouldn't be able to hike prices for "signature" matches, would they?

I'll continue to go when I can, at £35- 45/ticket, and the rest (£100 hotel room, meals, drinks etc, £50 petrol) it would just be nice if doing so was occasionally a little less expensive, clearly too much to ask for.

Oh, and by the way, last season, Leeds charged the third/fourth highest ticket prices (cheapest or most expensive) for home tickets, and the highest prices in the league (whether cheapest or most expensive) for away tickets, so much do they "value" the awesomely famous away supporters;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41482931

MOT?

[WTF11]

Big teams & Big bucks to be made everywhere not just inside and outside stadia.

Aser/ELEVEN Sports are Rad's wallet revenue and will be promoting their services globally no doubt but our fan base IS far and wide - the game requires newer fans from a broader base today and media platforms deliver that whether right or wrong via TV subscription .............. not all can attend games in the UK so obviously a market is there .

Exploiting fans some would argue whilst others would expect such a service to be delivered ............... take your pick as ALAW.

If your Leeds you'll get to see our games live or on Tv end of ......

https://www.techradar.com/uk/how-to/...-do-i-watch-it

Not sure how you come to that final conclusion?

Said on another thread that like many Leeds fans, affording to visit ER isn't easy, and paying the highest away ticket prices in the division doesn't help. If I could afford a season ticket, I could probably afford a Sky subscription, but I can't so I depend upon links that sometimes work, sometimes they don't, or "highlights" (30 seconds if Quest feel generous).

Cold comfort to know that our club owners kitty will benefit hugely from the decision to take the whole first team squad around the world when seeing them play here is regularly a struggle to afford.

ALAW? I have been for 50 years, not quite so sure about how much our owner is wedded to the idea at least insofar as the view he has of the supporters.

[MrsORichSenior]

As stated - the base line is Viability - Solvency - Liquidity !

Leeds United has a 'Stable Customer Base' ...........

So I repeat - Value for money is important if you hope to get repeat business and Leeds get repeat business so pricing must be right WTF11.

Further, I'd suspect that if we go up so will our season ticket applications too

In fact folks are already planning the trip to Australia via Yorkshire airport routes via Paris and Singapore - so the 'product' must be right ........... even those add on airport taxes wont deter either let alone any Brexit hangover.

I suppose its all about choice on how we spend our money and that's why I left UK as I have more opportunity to earn,save and spend more and have time to enjoy life pursuing my interests.

Of course not everyone can get to Leeds games but it's damn amazing that many who do can still find extra cash for merchandise and many have the extra to booze,eat,be merry regardless - THAT is what the club(s) note 'cos that revenue filtering in does not reflect your view in general to date that folks cannot afford to go.Enough have an opportunity to go so ..............

As for loyalty discounts ? .................

I would answer simply .......'What effect is any change in your costs having on your margins' in that respect.Any business investor has requirements in regard to high short-term returns or long-term growth and other external influences including financial resources to consider and Leeds Utd are no different as the Rad has a Profit/Loss sheet at the end of the day and THAT'LL determine what 'offers' he can/cannot deliver - For now the most appropriate strategy will depend on how he'll want to position the product/brand of Leeds United at this moment in time with his accounts team.

That's the area where I disagree with you (the business economics) as your expecting far to much to soon under the Rad's regime,IMO - when we see the latest club trading figures,with respect, you'll see the answer to your question I suspect.
Having a 'unique selling position' is a first critical factor in having a viable business. Being unique keeps your business out in front of the competition and with respect Leeds are NOT Millwall as ER is near as damn full most weeks - but Bournemouth ain't a cheap place to buy a seat with their capacity so warnings for us on that score.

Out of interest what company do you loyally support come what may and why ?
Evidently we gonna not connect on this 'loyalty offers' scenario but your point is interesting and has been noted.


MOT

[WTF11]

As stated - the base line is Viability - Solvency - Liquidity !

Leeds United has a 'Stable Customer Base' ...........

So I repeat - Value for money is important if you hope to get repeat business and Leeds get repeat business so pricing must be right WTF11.

Further, I'd suspect that if we go up so will our season ticket applications too

In fact folks are already planning the trip to Australia via Yorkshire airport routes via Paris and Singapore - so the 'product' must be right ........... even those add on airport taxes wont deter either let alone any Brexit hangover.

I suppose its all about choice on how we spend our money and that's why I left UK as I have more opportunity to earn,save and spend more and have time to enjoy life pursuing my interests.

Of course not everyone can get to Leeds games but it's damn amazing that many who do can still find extra cash for merchandise and many have the extra to booze,eat,be merry regardless - THAT is what the club(s) note 'cos that revenue filtering in does not reflect your view in general to date that folks cannot afford to go.Enough have an opportunity to go so ..............

As for loyalty discounts ? .................

I would answer simply .......'What effect is any change in your costs having on your margins' in that respect.Any business investor has requirements in regard to high short-term returns or long-term growth and other external influences including financial resources to consider and Leeds Utd are no different as the Rad has a Profit/Loss sheet at the end of the day and THAT'LL determine what 'offers' he can/cannot deliver - For now the most appropriate strategy will depend on how he'll want to position the product/brand of Leeds United at this moment in time with his accounts team.

That's the area where I disagree with you (the business economics) as your expecting far to much to soon under the Rad's regime,IMO - when we see the latest club trading figures,with respect, you'll see the answer to your question I suspect.
Having a 'unique selling position' is a first critical factor in having a viable business. Being unique keeps your business out in front of the competition and with respect Leeds are NOT Millwall as ER is near as damn full most weeks - but Bournemouth ain't a cheap place to buy a seat with their capacity so warnings for us on that score.

Out of interest what company do you loyally support come what may and why ?
Evidently we gonna not connect on this 'loyalty offers' scenario but your point is interesting and has been noted.


MOT

Strange (or perhaps not, given that football is more of a business to club owners nowadays than ever before), that you ask me what "company" I loyally support. Answer...none. If they provide what I want/need with adequate quality, choice and at a price I can afford, I'll use their services/buy their products, if not, I'll go somewhere else.

How this is relevant to being a Leeds supporter (oft times a season ticket holder, sadly not at the moment and "geographically challenged", in terms of occasional visits to ER) for half a century isn't entirely clear. Neither is it clear how your post answers my point regarding the public statements from the club praising the support the club gets (home and away) squared with their exploitation of those self-same supporters without the faintest whiff of material recognition of that self-same loyalty.

Why do supporters stump up the cash week in, week out, year in, year out is the question, and the answer is loyalty (there a saying in the Harley Davidson community that springs to mind, "If I have to explain, you wouldn't understand"), simple as that. Loyalty to a club (NOT a "brand"!!!), a name, an entity that is greater than the sum of its parts, that has history, heritage, and which is now being exploited by those who see it purely in terms of the Profit/Loss tables you refer to.

I'm NOT suggesting we live in some bucolic, rose-tinted world where all is sweetness and light, just slightly less hypocritical.

Radrizzani has done what he has done so far as good business (including getting ER back, something I was saying should happen when GFH were on the scene), nothing more, nothing less, (and has learned some painful lessons along the way, like getting recruitment focussed on getting quality, not quantity (both on and off the pitch). He is exploiting fans to the utmost in terms of all the "things" that Leeds sells, including tickets for home and away matches, because he can, and he knows he can, because Leeds supporters are fanatically LOYAL, not because they like paying those prices.

Some can get to ER, some are able to afford a season ticket, others can't do either, but all would suggest they are Leeds. Radrizzani could, if he so wished, do something to recognise that inequality, he chooses (and has chosen) not to. He should desist from making hypocritical statements about how much he respects loyalty, he doesn't, he VALUES it, in its most raw and basic terms. Were he to do so, I might respect him a little more, at least he would be appearing to be more honest.

[MrsORichSenior]

............. interesting point on 'values'

Observation off the cuff ............ recently when over I spent time in Canterbury whilst awaiting a train to Dover and thought I go and have a look at the architecture of Canterbury Cathedral BUT when I got to it they wanted an admission charge which I refused to pay.
https://www.canterbury-cathedral.org...entry-charges/

(I actually then visited the local town free museum gallery & enjoyed a drink,sandwich for a fiver and had a great time)

So much for historic loyalty to the Church in England

Happened at Winchester Cathedral too & York Minster - all charge too!

Does not happen in France 'tho - they're on the streets here now with Tear gas demonstrating about diesel fuel prices that have gone up which traditionally were kept low.

Lesson learned - Vote with your feet or Voice direct your concern is my opinion.

MOT

[WTF11]

............. interesting point on 'values'

Observation off the cuff ............ recently when over I spent time in Canterbury whilst awaiting a train to Dover and thought I go and have a look at the architecture of Canterbury Cathedral BUT when I got to it they wanted an admission charge which I refused to pay.
https://www.canterbury-cathedral.org...entry-charges/

(I actually then visited the local town free museum gallery & enjoyed a drink,sandwich for a fiver and had a great time)

So much for historic loyalty to the Church in England

Happened at Winchester Cathedral too & York Minster - all charge too!

Does not happen in France 'tho - they're on the streets here now with Tear gas demonstrating about diesel fuel prices that have gone up which traditionally were kept low.

Lesson learned - Vote with your feet or Voice direct your concern is my opinion.

MOT

"Lesson learned - Vote with your feet or Voice direct your concern is my opinion." - or otherwise put, f00k off or complain to the club.

You clearly don't get my point regarding loyalty if you consider the first to be an option, and you think I haven't "voiced my concern" directly?

Your loyalty to the CofE is based on what, upbringing, they uplifting feeling of having faith in a creator, etc etc etc? I suspect not.

Fact is, the museum you visited in tax-payer funded, and the decision not to charge an admission fee was based on the general benefit to the population (of whatever religious persuasion or none), and I wholeheartedly applaud that decision and bear the tax burden lightly as a result.

None of that is in any way relevant to the point of loyalty to Leeds. Leeds are not a deity (shock horror), nor are they a national institution, neither are the supposed to be not-for-profit and/or tax-payer funded.

You continue to avoid addressing the hypocrisy of a club owner who praises the loyalty of the support base, but who seeks to exploit commercially to the utmost, with little or no quarter given and across all the commercial activities of the club, exemplified by the decision to visit Australia for the 2019 pre-season, making it inevitable that less prosperous supporters will be unable to attend, simply in order to extend the "brand", to the betterment of the owners bank balance, and the detriment of just about every supporter who can actually attend.

[MrsORichSenior]

................... you appear to disagree to disagreeing to disagree with you.

WE have different opinions yet you also stated ...... "Strange (or perhaps not, given that football is more of a business to club owners nowadays than ever before), that you ask me what "company" I loyally support. Answer...none. If they provide what I want/need with adequate quality, choice and at a price I can afford, I'll use their services/buy their products, if not, I'll go somewhere els"

Mmmm,well I could respond to THAT statement but I won't.

But with respect I'll bet that YOU would attend under different circumstances and is a point only YOU know the answer to.

My last word on this 'engaging topic' is Leeds United basically created merchandising for money via Revie cleverly identifying the niche market via kits,tracksuit tops,sock tabs etc - all bought loyally by my family which helped the club and of course the folks who manafactuered/marketed them even the boots provided by the local Leeds firm at the time Stylo - so please don't pin the blame on recent over sea owners.

I'm happy to pay now and in the days I couldn't afford to pay I/my family found a way - even today myself and husband and kids often sleep on route in our van,truck or car or cadge a lift in other Leeds fans transport,use official Leeds coaches and spend many hours each week getting hold of tickets to give or exchange for those who cannot afford to pay, a personal choice as its a 'Leeds thing' that possibly makes NO logical sense ...............

NONE of us expect a discounted day supporting our home town team courtesy of the Rad or any of his predecessors.It appears I am not alone in that view but I fully understand your opinion/veiw to and I've along with others have spent many hours each week addressing likewise concerns for the Football Supporters Federation over the years ............ which the club know well - so I do balance that perspective with my own personal opinion before expressing my veiw.

MOT

[MrsORichSenior]

......... football today,Mmmm,kit manafactuers in the ££££££££'s.

[WTF11]

................... you appear to disagree to disagreeing to disagree with you.

WE have different opinions yet you also stated ...... "Strange (or perhaps not, given that football is more of a business to club owners nowadays than ever before), that you ask me what "company" I loyally support. Answer...none. If they provide what I want/need with adequate quality, choice and at a price I can afford, I'll use their services/buy their products, if not, I'll go somewhere els"

Mmmm,well I could respond to THAT statement but I won't.

But with respect I'll bet that YOU would attend under different circumstances and is a point only YOU know the answer to.

My last word on this 'engaging topic' is Leeds United basically created merchandising for money via Revie cleverly identifying the niche market via kits,tracksuit tops,sock tabs etc - all bought loyally by my family which helped the club and of course the folks who manafactuered/marketed them even the boots provided by the local Leeds firm at the time Stylo - so please don't pin the blame on recent over sea owners.

I'm happy to pay now and in the days I couldn't afford to pay I/my family found a way - even today myself and husband and kids often sleep on route in our van,truck or car or cadge a lift in other Leeds fans transport,use official Leeds coaches and spend many hours each week getting hold of tickets to give or exchange for those who cannot afford to pay, a personal choice as its a 'Leeds thing' that possibly makes NO logical sense ...............

NONE of us expect a discounted day supporting our home town team courtesy of the Rad or any of his predecessors.It appears I am not alone in that view but I fully understand your opinion/veiw to and I've along with others have spent many hours each week addressing likewise concerns for the Football Supporters Federation over the years ............ which the club know well - so I do balance that perspective with my own personal opinion before expressing my veiw.

MOT

Not quite sure what the effect of those various "disagreeings" were....

Also not quite sure why you don't respond to the "loyal to what company" piece?

Yet again, you choose to duck the question......how can Radrizzani create the commercial structures that seek to extract the maximum amount of money for the goods/services provided, yet issue statements of appreciation for fan loyalty, without at least the appearance of hypocrisy?

I don't "expect" a discounted opportunity to see Leeds, but how much good will (yes, that old fashioned commodity that seems to be going out of fashion nowadays), would be generated if a surprise package was made available now and again? Many neither need nor care about such things, you're not alone in that view as you say, neither am I in mine (and charity handouts aren't what is required).