O/T DDay for Brexit..well sort of...

[ragingpup]

Corbyns plan (which is Starmas plan) involves staying and not leaving

Absolutely untrue. We would have left the EU. Just not in the way that it appears you and others on here would like. Which is fair enough. But to say we would still be in the EU is simply not true. We voted to Leave. With these plans, we would Leave.

[ragingpup]

It would come as no surprise to May that Juncker would like Corbyn's plan. What's not for him to like? A UK that takes rules without a say in making them - the continued jurisdiction of a European Court to enforce those rules - an inability to make trade deals with the rest of the world unless the EU agrees them and, in all likelihood, the UK continuing to contribute to the EU budget (they are not going to give the 'benefits' of membership for free).

It’s the Norway style zombie membership that May has spent two years trying to avoid.

Kerr, as you well know, your argument here is deliberately slanted. Just as May went in to negotiate her Deal with focus on her view of Brexit (heavily influenced by her hard line back benchers), if we went into discussions for a Deal with Labour's suggested focus, we would then negotiate against the aspects that you have mentioned to get the best deal we could. But with the advantage that the EU would much prefer a deal that prioritised tariff free trade and ease of goods movement. For me, much of EU laws are what I'm happy to see anyway.

Specifically which EU laws are you thinking of which you fear will be imposed upon the UK? How do you feel that we in the UK will suffer as a result of these 'laws'?

So, what's your preference for the alternatives before us:

1. Persevere with May's deal and put all hope in the EU opening the backstop and making concessions enough to please enough MPs to get through, despite all evidence showing us that this won't happen? And then obviously proceed to No Deal when it eventually gets voted down.

2. Re-negotiate a soft Brexit that will gain trade benefits and some concessions but would most likely (if May and Corbyn negotiate a centre ground) command enough consensus to get through Parliament?

Can you see any other options? If not, which of these sounds like the best way forward to you?

[Exiletyke]

How could I have any knowledge about your physical health? I do not stalk you.

I'm sorry to hear of your problems. Have you tried something low impact - swimming or cycling maybe?

You spend an inordinate amount of your sorry ass time on this board & Tykes Mad so it's not a question of stalking [which is a pathetic claim anyway] but I will not accept that my plight has passed you by.You're too efficient on posting & reading for anyone to believe that
And your concern for my welfare is totally out of character & I might add is as well received as a fart in an astronauts suit [to quote the great Billy Connolly]
I'll bet there are not many on here that would challenge that view
But if you're happy to live that lie it's no wonder you're a fan of Cameron

[KerrAvon]

I’m sorry, Exile, but I have never had cause to think you have problems with your physical health.

My best wishes were sincerely offered. It saddens me that you don’t feel able to accept them.

P.s. If I spend an inordinate amount of time on here, where does that leave you? I post at a rate of 1.49 per day whereas you are more than double that at 3.09.

[KerrAvon]

Kerr, as you well know, your argument here is deliberately slanted. Just as May went in to negotiate her Deal with focus on her view of Brexit (heavily influenced by her hard line back benchers), if we went into discussions for a Deal with Labour's suggested focus, we would then negotiate against the aspects that you have mentioned to get the best deal we could. But with the advantage that the EU would much prefer a deal that prioritised tariff free trade and ease of goods movement. For me, much of EU laws are what I'm happy to see anyway.

Specifically which EU laws are you thinking of which you fear will be imposed upon the UK? How do you feel that we in the UK will suffer as a result of these 'laws'?

So, what's your preference for the alternatives before us:

1. Persevere with May's deal and put all hope in the EU opening the backstop and making concessions enough to please enough MPs to get through, despite all evidence showing us that this won't happen? And then obviously proceed to No Deal when it eventually gets voted down.

2. Re-negotiate a soft Brexit that will gain trade benefits and some concessions but would most likely (if May and Corbyn negotiate a centre ground) command enough consensus to get through Parliament?

Can you see any other options? If not, which of these sounds like the best way forward to you?

I’m not being ‘deliberately slanted’ at all. I’m telling you what I think without any filters being imposed upon me by allegiance to a particular political party or doctrine. I appreciate that is something that you find difficult to understand.

I find it extraordinary that you or anyone else would willingly give an external body the right to impose laws upon the UK without us having any say in the matter, particularly when that external body will be a direct competitor to the UK as a place to do business and create jobs. I can only assume that you believe that the EU is and will remain a body that is capable of only acting in a benign fashion towards the UK, even if it would be in the best interests of its member states not to do so?

As an example, in 2011, the EU proposed a whole raft of regulation for the banking and finance industry that the UK government saw as threat to what is one of the largest and most successful sectors of the British economy. As we were members of the EU, we were able to veto that. In the quasi-membership that Corbyn proposes, we would not have been able to.

Let me put it another way; if it was announced that there would be no more elections in this country and that, instead, a body would be appointed to write laws over which you would have no say and that the body in question might have other country’s interests at heart, would you think that a good idea? In answering, put out of your mind whether Corbyn would think it a good idea as that shouldn’t be a relevant consideration.

As for where I think we should go next, I told you last night. For my part, I fear a no deal Brexit and think it would be very damaging in the short to medium term. I think it preferable to the surrender of democracy and zombie membership on offer from Labour, however.

[KerrAvon]

We voted by 52 to 48 to come out.If labour or the conservatives won an election, with a margin of well over a million votes, do you think they would have said, we will implement some of your manifesto because it's only right.Certainly not,it would have been the winner's manifesto put into practice..

That's a well made point.

[great_fire]

Brexiteers certainly wouldn't have been as poor losers as the Remainers have been, there would have been some complaining no doubt for a month or two but not for 2 and a half frigging years non-stop!

[KerrAvon]

I think Leavers would have been just as bad. That's one of the reasons why I think a further referendum would be a bad idea. It would merely prolong the current arguments.

[millmoormagic]

Brexiteers certainly wouldn't have been as poor losers as the Remainers have been, there would have been some complaining no doubt for a month or two but not for 2 and a half frigging years non-stop!

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...b020461a1d5fd9

[Exiletyke]

I’m sorry, Exile, but I have never had cause to think you have problems with your physical health.

My best wishes were sincerely offered. It saddens me that you don’t feel able to accept them.

P.s. If I spend an inordinate amount of time on here, where does that leave you? I post at a rate of 1.49 per day whereas you are more than double that at 3.09.

That's an extreme case of Whataboutery but not wishing to spoil your enjoyment perhaps you could do a little more research as to your often lengthy posts compared to my posts which generally observe brevity by comparison