O/T DDay for Brexit..well sort of...

[MillerBill]

What Corbyn is suggesting is No Brexit.Still being tied to the ruthless EU and having no freedom to create our own trade deals.Why would anyone want to jeopardize the endless opportunities we and future generations would have?

[ragingpup]

I hope our politicians will not waste such time as there is left chasing such unicorns.

And what do you suppose May is doing in travelling over to the EU? How exactly is that time well spent in trying to avoid No Deal?

Some hope from Rory Stewart's in interview this morning. Asked if May was looking at some sort of compromise with the opposition leader, Stewart told BBC Breakfast: “Yes. I think she feels, as I do, that there isn’t actually as much dividing us from the Labour party as some people suggest.”

A direct CU might well be off the table for May, but clearly there is hope that she will discuss areas where an agreement can be reached to make for a safer Brexit. Sadly, she is operating in a straitjacket as she knows the power that the hard right occupy in her own party, and where they want to take us regardless of other people's livelihoods and lives that are at stake. Sad also that you are protecting this direction of travel.

I'm wondering now, if grown up discussions to stop a Bad Deal being forced up parliament and the country vs a No Deal if momentum will suddenly emerge out of sheer desperation, as a last gasp, to force a 2nd referendum on May's bad deal v Remaining and letting the country decide. I've always opposed this, but if we are forced in this direction, if May's bad deal is the only one left on the table and she succeeds in running down the clock, then I would willingly back a decisive vote. I think your party's stubbornness and unwillingness to compromise in any way might come back to haunt you and the other hard Brexiters on here?

[KerrAvon]

My your Momentum what to think Twitter feed has been busy.

The Brady amendment changed the landscape insofar as the May deal is concerned. As I explained a couple of weeks ago, the EU now has to decide when and if to blink. At the moment, they still have hopes that Parliament will back something daft like a permanent CU and all the baggage that goes with it.

As long as Corbyn clings to his customs union, there is little ground for compromise with May as it is not a line that she can cross for the reasons that I have explained. That hasn't been forced on anyone, it reflects a desire to deliver a decent Brexit as opposed to a half in half out fudge.

As for your reference to a 'direct' CU, I'm intrigued; what the hell is an indirect one?

I agree that it is pleasing that Labour and, one assumes, MPs from other parties have woken up to what they have voted for and are starting to act like grown ups.

In what way do you say the May deal is a bad one? How does the backstop customs union differ from the permanent customs union that Corbyn wants (other than we know that his is permanent)?

As for a second referendum, where is your parliamentary majority for that coming from?

I didn't vote for no deal, so doubt whether I will be haunted by it. I'll just have to live with it like everyone else.

[ragingpup]

My your Momentum what to think Twitter feed has been busy.

The Brady amendment changed the landscape insofar as the May deal is concerned. As I explained a couple of weeks ago, the EU now has to decide when and if to blink. At the moment, they still have hopes that Parliament will back something daft like a permanent CU and all the baggage that goes with it.

As long as Corbyn clings to his customs union, there is little ground for compromise with May as it is not a line that she can cross for the reasons that I have explained. That hasn't been forced on anyone, it reflects a desire to deliver a decent Brexit as opposed to a half in half out fudge.

As for your reference to a 'direct' CU, I'm intrigued; what the hell is an indirect one?

I agree that it is pleasing that Labour and, one assumes, MPs from other parties have woken up to what they have voted for and are starting to act like grown ups.

In what way do you say the May deal is a bad one? How does the backstop customs union differ from the permanent customs union that Corbyn wants (other than we know that his is permanent)?

As for a second referendum, where is your parliamentary majority for that coming from?

I didn't vote for no deal, so doubt whether I will be haunted by it. I'll just have to live with it like everyone else.

You obviously have forgotten why Labour opposed May's deal. Do I need to remind you:

- Risks economy and jobs
- Weakens worker's rights
- Weaken's national security
- Threatens to drive the UK nations apart
- No guarantees for EU residents here or UK nationals abroad

How bad is that?

It's nothing to do with the backstop. It's all about not giving the government a blank cheque. Future talks, ones that actually might be possible, must involve you stopping believing in your own unicorns (EU blinks! ffs grow up!) and getting our leaders to actually collaborate on a cross party agreement. I know that will stick in your hard Brexit craw, with your own blinkered vision of "what the people voted for" (in other words, what you want), but tough.

Where might a majority majority for a referendum come from? I guess it would come from the same majority of politicians who voted against a No Deal in principle 2 weeks ago. You may be happy for May to play roulette with our economy, you probably have the wealth and detachment to know if won't touch you personally, but if it goes down to the wire, and you don't catch your unicorn, I think you will find that parliament will intervene - either to extend the deadline (if we can show them we have grown up a bit) and then start proper negotiations that protect the economy first, or vote May's deal through but only on account of her accepting that the people have a final say. Most likely the former, but the latter is a risk you favouring a hard Brexit side are going to have to risk.

Let's make a deal ourselves though. If May catches her unicorn and the deal goes through on her terms, no complaining from me.
However, if she tries running down the clock, parliament intervenes and we end up with No Brexit, how about you and your mates similarly accepting the result of that with grace?

[Timbertop]

If there's No Brexit there will be revolution the likes this country has not seen for centuries.

[WanChaiMiller]

If there's No Brexit there will be revolution the likes this country has not seen for centuries.

Project fear!!

[Exiletyke]

Project fear!!

Tends to balance the scales you understand....................
but not much

[KerrAvon]

You obviously have forgotten why Labour opposed May's deal. Do I need to remind you:

- Risks economy and jobs
- Weakens worker's rights
- Weaken's national security
- Threatens to drive the UK nations apart
- No guarantees for EU residents here or UK nationals abroad

How bad is that?

It's nothing to do with the backstop. It's all about not giving the government a blank cheque. Future talks, ones that actually might be possible, must involve you stopping believing in your own unicorns (EU blinks! ffs grow up!) and getting our leaders to actually collaborate on a cross party agreement. I know that will stick in your hard Brexit craw, with your own blinkered vision of "what the people voted for" (in other words, what you want), but tough.

Where might a majority majority for a referendum come from? I guess it would come from the same majority of politicians who voted against a No Deal in principle 2 weeks ago. You may be happy for May to play roulette with our economy, you probably have the wealth and detachment to know if won't touch you personally, but if it goes down to the wire, and you don't catch your unicorn, I think you will find that parliament will intervene - either to extend the deadline (if we can show them we have grown up a bit) and then start proper negotiations that protect the economy first, or vote May's deal through but only on account of her accepting that the people have a final say. Most likely the former, but the latter is a risk you favouring a hard Brexit side are going to have to risk.

Let's make a deal ourselves though. If May catches her unicorn and the deal goes through on her terms, no complaining from me.
However, if she tries running down the clock, parliament intervenes and we end up with No Brexit, how about you and your mates similarly accepting the result of that with grace?

Calm down, dear. You win game, set and match, remember. If it does go no deal, you can pretend it hasn't happened and praise yourself on here for single handedly averting it. Lol.

Great list of reasons why Labour voted against the deal. Straight from your party within a party, Momentum? It omits the real reason, which is that you were trying to engineer a general election. I won't embarrass you by asking you to explain why the deal presented the threats you claim.

We hand a government a blank cheque every time we vote one in, subject to Parliament (and, strictly speaking, the Queen) agreeing to sign it. A Parliament cannot bind a future Parliament (the House of Lords confirmed that and a couple of other interesting legal points when it decided the Article 50 case).

How do you say Parliament can call another referendum? Who is going to introduce the legislation if the government doesn't? There are limits to how far even Bercow can bend the rules. And I still don't see where your majority is coming from. Most MPs know political suicide when they see it.

I don't favour a hard Brexit, I pondered long and hard over my vote in the referendum, because I was so torn by competing arguments. I also believe that any Brexit will be economically damaging with no deal particularly so. The point is, however, that people voted to leave, not for the half-assed zombie Norway like quasi membership that you favour.

[WanChaiMiller]

What Corbyn is suggesting is No Brexit.Still being tied to the ruthless EU and having no freedom to create our own trade deals.Why would anyone want to jeopardize the endless opportunities we and future generations would have?

And still no one has been able to articulate what those opportunities those are.

[MillerBill]

I can't teach the blinkered uneducated.