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Thread: O/T DDay for Brexit..well sort of...

  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by gm_gm View Post
    Labour are playing a childish game in that they will reject everything and anything in favour of chaos, they are career politicians who want power and will risk everything to get it.

    I honestly can’t remember an opposition with so many numpties in my lifetime
    that has to go down as the funniest post i've ever read on here, tell me you're being ironic gm? hahaha

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by KerrAvon View Post
    Kapow!

    I was wondering if it would be a member of my Left or Right Wing Fan Club that would take the obvious shot.

    I knew that I wouldn't be disappointed though.
    The most IBS post I've seen since IBS.

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by gm_gm View Post
    Labour are playing a childish game in that they will reject everything and anything in favour of chaos, they are career politicians who want power and will risk everything to get it.

    I honestly can’t remember an opposition with so many numpties in my lifetime
    1. The 6 tests that labour are using are holding the government to account for promises that they made in their leave campaign and manifesto. Don't you thinkthat a basic function of an effective opposition is to hold the government to account for promises made to its electorate?

    2. What exactly do you want labour to say?

    3. Why do you want Labour to say what you want them to say? How will it help you/us in Brexit proceedings as the government proceed in their direction?

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragingpup View Post
    From what I can make out, the recurring feature of Labour's Outlook on Brexit is to protect jobs by negotiating a customs union arrangement very similar to the existing one as a priority. Of course this won't come without some concessions, probably on retaining free movement although of course, as the opposition, they are careful in not revealing that when they don't have too. But it's not rocket science to work it out. I think Labour are aware that despite the wishes of the hard brexiteers, free movement from the EU brings us a net gain and are putting jobs and the economy first.

    I think that a labour Brexit would be more along the lines of the Norway agreement.

    Would it split the country? Yes, of course. But we would be out of the EU, which is what we voted for. What deal wouldn't split the country in this impossible charade? But in answer to your question, I think the basic labour position is clear and oft repeated. Jobs and Customs Union = very soft Brexit.
    None of that is likely to be achievable though because the EU mandarins simply won't agree to a "customs union arrangement very similar to the existing one." Why should they?
    Stopping free movement was supposedly one of the main things the Brexiteers (many of whom were in Labour strongholds) voted for. Can you imagine the reaction if Labour let that one go.
    If it's not rocket science to understand what the Labour policy is then why can't the leader and Brexit secretary agree?

  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by WanChaiMiller View Post
    Dont blame Labour for the mess. Blame the Brexiteers that voted us out.
    So the Brexiteers voted us out but then the politicians including pretty much every labour politician who I saw on the TV apart from John Mann have been against leaving and telling us that we didn’t vote for this or that type of Brexit!!!

    We have people marching for a vote on the final deal. When they are flying the EU flag which way do you think they’ll vote? Same with the politicians who are asking for a vote.

    The politicians from both sides are making this into the farce it is. If they would accept the result of the referendum and accepted we were leaving the EU (not trying to cling on to certain aspects) then fair enough.

    I was asked a question at the referendum and I answered it. I was willing to accept any hardship that went with it.

    The people want to leave but there are too many politicians that don’t seem to believe in democracy and unfortunately they have more say than us!!

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by mellowmiller View Post
    None of that is likely to be achievable though because the EU mandarins simply won't agree to a "customs union arrangement very similar to the existing one." Why should they?
    Stopping free movement was supposedly one of the main things the Brexiteers (many of whom were in Labour strongholds) voted for. Can you imagine the reaction if Labour let that one go.
    If it's not rocket science to understand what the Labour policy is then why can't the leader and Brexit secretary agree?
    Leaving the EU with a similar customs union agreement is achievable though isn't it? We know because Norway achieved it. As I said, it would come at the price that would alienate lots of people in labour strongholds but tbh I think most of those joined ukip or the tories long ago on the belief that those parties wouldn't screw them over with a soft Brexit.

    No deal would make everyone happy. I'm trying to answer your question that labour have repeatedly said jobs first, economy first - so other priorities they are putting after. Of course that will piss off loads of people, but you wanted to know their position. They keep telling you.

  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shark27 View Post
    So the Brexiteers voted us out but then the politicians including pretty much every labour politician who I saw on the TV apart from John Mann have been against leaving and telling us that we didn’t vote for this or that type of Brexit!!!

    We have people marching for a vote on the final deal. When they are flying the EU flag which way do you think they’ll vote? Same with the politicians who are asking for a vote.

    The politicians from both sides are making this into the farce it is. If they would accept the result of the referendum and accepted we were leaving the EU (not trying to cling on to certain aspects) then fair enough.

    I was asked a question at the referendum and I answered it. I was willing to accept any hardship that went with it.

    The people want to leave but there are too many politicians that don’t seem to believe in democracy and unfortunately they have more say than us!!
    Problem is though that there are many different ways of leaving the EU. Hard Brexit? Soft Brexit? Norway? Canada+xmillion? No deal?

    Many leavers voted wanting a clean break and fair enough. Respect that. Many were promised that a deal would be easy and wanted to leave with a deal. A true democracy exit for all people in the country has to represent the hard brexiteers, but also the soft brexiteers and the remainers who still live, work and play taxes here.

    I think the problem is that you are trying to project your interpretation of leave onto others. It's no more or less valid than anyone else I'm afraid.

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragingpup View Post
    Leaving the EU with a similar customs union agreement is achievable though isn't it? We know because Norway achieved it. As I said, it would come at the price that would alienate lots of people in labour strongholds but tbh I think most of those joined ukip or the tories long ago on the belief that those parties wouldn't screw them over with a soft Brexit.

    No deal would make everyone happy. I'm trying to answer your question that labour have repeatedly said jobs first, economy first - so other priorities they are putting after. Of course that will piss off loads of people, but you wanted to know their position. They keep telling you.
    Norway didn't leave the EU though did they and that's a key difference. If you think the European negotiators will roll over and give us a similar arrangement then I fear you're sadly mistaken.
    Making generalised statements like "jobs first, economy first" is just rhetoric and typical of any party in opposition but it's certainly not a strategy.
    I'm not simply having a go at Labour as I've already said the Conservatives are making a right hash of the negotiations.
    I honestly believe, however that if the current opposition became the government, we would be no better off because they are also riven by internal disagreements and the whole mess would just rumble on.

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by mellowmiller View Post
    Norway didn't leave the EU though did they and that's a key difference. If you think the European negotiators will roll over and give us a similar arrangement then I fear you're sadly mistaken.
    Making generalised statements like "jobs first, economy first" is just rhetoric and typical of any party in opposition but it's certainly not a strategy.
    I'm not simply having a go at Labour as I've already said the Conservatives are making a right hash of the negotiations.
    I honestly believe, however that if the current opposition became the government, we would be no better off because they are also riven by internal disagreements and the whole mess would just rumble on.
    Is Norway in the EU MM?

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragingpup View Post
    Problem is though that there are many different ways of leaving the EU. Hard Brexit? Soft Brexit? Norway? Canada+xmillion? No deal?

    Many leavers voted wanting a clean break and fair enough. Respect that. Many were promised that a deal would be easy and wanted to leave with a deal. A true democracy exit for all people in the country has to represent the hard brexiteers, but also the soft brexiteers and the remainers who still live, work and play taxes here.

    I think the problem is that you are trying to project your interpretation of leave onto others. It's no more or less valid than anyone else I'm afraid.
    The question was a very simple one though and Wanchai is blaming me for the mess that politicians have caused.

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