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Your 72 fact doesnt tell the full story. The records only relate to votes on proposed laws that eventually pass. We do not know how often the UK successfully opposed proposals, as these are not mentioned in the official figures.Originally Posted by BigLadonOS
UK voted in favour 2466 times.
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So what you are saying is that rather than look at the Lisbon Treaty, which sets out the exact legal position on the notion of an EU Army, you prefer the paranoid ramblings of certain pro-Leave sites?
There are several good reasons for wanting to leave, but some of the ones that you are citing have no basis in reality.
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Once and for all maybe this will get through to your brain what the EU do when things do not go their way and after reading this you may understand why I do not put any faith in anything the EU say. On this occasion and many many more occasions the EU find ways round what they want to happen to make it happen. Any bit of paper you have assurances written on are worth about as much as a piece of scrap paper to be disregarded by the EU whenever they want.
UK parliament approves EU treaty
Hecklers make their voices heard in the Lords
The UK has effectively ratified the EU's reform treaty - despite the decision by Irish voters to reject it.
A last-ditch Tory bid to delay the process for four months was defeated by a margin of 93, and peers later gave the EU Amendment Bill a third reading.
Royal Assent is expected within 24 hours, as EU leaders are set to meet in Brussels to discuss the crisis caused by the Irish "No" vote.
The PM says the treaty must be ratified by all 27 EU states to be accepted.
During the Lords debate four protesters were removed from the public gallery after voicing their demands for a referendum.
'Respect for the Irish'
A woman was taken away shouting: "It's a democracy." She was followed by three more protesters, at intervals, demanding a referendum.
Earlier, Gordon Brown dismissed a call by Conservative leader David Cameron to declare the Lisbon Treaty "dead" after the Irish rejection of it.
This is not a treaty that Britain wanted or needed - it's a treaty you were so ashamed of you had to sign it in a room all on your own
David Cameron to Gordon Brown
The prime minister said he respected the Irish people's referendum vote, but the Irish government had asked for more time to discuss what to do in the wake of its outcome.
"Just as we have respect for the Irish, we should have respect for the other countries that are processing the treaty and ratifying the treaty as well," he said.
"And perhaps we should also have respect for this House, which has also voted for ratification of the treaty."
Mr Cameron hit back that he did not understand why Mr Brown could not bring himself to say the treaty was "dead".
"This is not a treaty that Britain wanted or needed," he said. "It's a treaty you were so ashamed of you had to sign it in a room all on your own."
'Limbo'
European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso thanked the British government for its "constant support" for the new treaty - and he urged all other EU states who have yet to approve the document to continue the process despite Ireland's no-vote.
"I believe the new treaty will make the EU more effective, democratic and stronger on the global stage," he said. "The treaty of Lisbon has now been approved by 19 member states.
"I call on all of those that have not ratified the Treaty to continue the ratification process."
The bill finally cleared the Commons in March after 14 days of debate in which 29 Labour rebels backed a Tory referendum bid.
That was rejected by a majority of 63 after Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg ordered his MPs to abstain - an order ignored by 13 of his number who voted in support of the Tory measure.
A second Tory attempt by peers to force the government to hold a referendum was defeated by 280 votes to 218.
But the issue was reignited when the Irish voted against the treaty in a referendum last week.
Foreign Secretary David Miliband warned that failure to ratify the Lisbon Treaty would leave the UK in "limbo" and would be a "crazy" way to seek influence in Europe.
'Changed circumstances'
Shadow foreign secretary William Hague said there was "no democratic mandate" to press ahead with ratification and urged ministers against doing so.
In the Lords, the Tories insisted a delay would allow time to consider the "changed circumstances" caused by the Irish rejection of the treaty.
Lord Howell said it was "crystal clear" that Parliament would have to take account of any changes to the legislation that might be required as a result of the Irish "No".
But ex-European commissioner Lord Richard argued: "If we pass this bill, our position becomes clear. If we don't, it will remain imprecise. It would be ludicrous now to refrain from completing our job."
Please go tell the Irish that they did not have to sign up to anything they did not want to.
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What's your point? Nothing that the UK Parliament did had any bearing upon Ireland.
The UK Parliament accepted the Lisbon Treaty (complete with the agreed UK opt outs and it's restrictions upon the creation of an EU army) as it was empowered to do by the UK Constitution. The Irish Constitution required that the Irish people be asked to agree it and did so at the second time of asking
Doesn't that rather prove the point that treaty changes cannot be imposed by the EU, as they need to be ratified by member states?
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After having 2 referendums but more to the point after the first referendum the EU told all other parties to continue with the preparations regardless of the Irish vote which meant that however Ireland voted it was not going to stop them getting this treaty through even though the vote required all members to agree. The EU never lose anything they want mate and thats the point even if they have to force 2nd referendums. Does that remind you of anywhere?
The EU is a very dangerous power hungry organisation. They manipulate, back stab and do anything that is needed to get what they want and I am telling you now that the EU will have it's way over an EU army within the next 5 years and any veto rights on anything at all will be withdrawn within 3 years.
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The Euro flag, the Euro anthem and the Lisbon treaty. This is what the EU do time and time again.
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EU Army speech from Jan 2019.
It's coming there is no doubt about it.
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Complicated isn't it!
Sneaking laws onto our statute books without parliamentary scrutiny is enough for me. It's simplification of a complex issue but that action shows the EU can't be trusted. And some of our own who are comfortable bedfellows with them.
It was the same during both WORLD Wars. Leaving the EU completely is the re run of D Day - there will be collateral damage but to "stay" there will be oblivion.
Get out - Stay out.....ASAP. NO DEAL IS IDEAL!
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