Get your very own personalised Duke's Bar gifts!
Page 3 of 137 FirstFirst 123451353103 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 2739

Thread: O/T DDay for Brexit..well sort of...

  1. #41
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    10,070
    Quote Originally Posted by KerrAvon View Post
    I'd say you are both at about the same level.
    You're allowing your condescending demons to rise again, Kerr, you never did get back to me about your ascertian that i was rude and impolite did you?? Now, i'm many things, and may not be the best debater, but i'm as honest as the day's long, you however, are a liar, full blown two faced liar.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    816
    Quote Originally Posted by Muchthemillersson View Post
    Another issue that we don't seem to be facing is that we have a trade deficit with the EU of 80 billion per annum. We buy from them 80 billion more goods than they buy from us EVERY year. That means two things. One is that it is a substantial export of British jobs into the EU that our politicians should be seeking to reverse by bringing our trade with the EU back into balance.

    The other one is one of simple arithmetic. Let's say you are a household and you chronically spend more than you earn every year. What happens? You have a deficit on your income account and it has to be made good from your capital account. First your savings go; then you borrow; then you sell your assets. It's just the same with countries. If you perpetually buy more from overseas than you sell you have to borrow money, then you have to sell assets to make up the cash flow. There are only so many Premier League football clubs, water companies, gas companies, electricity companies, London properties and so on. Eventually there will be nothing left. What next? Whatever next? The government MUST take back control of our trade policy and bring our EU exports back into line with our imports as indeed they are with the rest of the world.
    This argument doesnt stack up. There is no evidence that leaving the EU will solve our balance of trade deficit - or an economic argument that balance of trade deficit is necessarily a bad thing.

    The household analogy is too simplistic. 2 things. First, a country can cover off a deficit through gdp growth. Second, borrowing to cover a medium term deficit is no bad thing (if all other conditions are ok).

    You'd advise a business totally differently to a fixed income household (yet, of course, youd advise a household to take a loan to buy property that will lead to increase in wealth - as long as they cover off the repayments). In the same way a business may take a loan to help growth. No different to a country.

    68% of imports from EU are in component parts (intermediate goods and services). This will not change by simply leaving the EU.

    The biggest risk to our economy is leaving the Single Market and jeopardising just in time supply of these componect parts that prop up our industrial base.

    56% of exports are done outside the EU. We don't need to leave the Customs Union to trade with the rest of the world. Dyson and JCB, leading brexiters, prove this by trading with 140 different countries.

    Why anyone would prefer to trade with, say, Australia and New Zealand (combined population 30m - 40 day container journey from the UK - 30 hours air travel time) than France (population 60m and 1 hour ferry over the channel - 40 mins with Ryan Air). It makes no sense.

    I am also interested to know what a free trade deal with China or India will look like and how quick it can be achieved (brexiteers reckon it would be simplest thing ever). Are we really going to have free trade with China with no checks or balances?

    Any free trade agreement will have with it a final court of arbitration to rule on trade disputes. Where will be? Im sure Brexiteers assume it will be London.

    There is still no proper detailed outline of what no deal brexit will look like (except Rees Mogg saying we may not see any benefit for 50 years).

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    816
    Quote Originally Posted by KerrAvon View Post
    How does that advance the debate when one of Labour's (wholly unrealistic and unattainable) tests for supporting a Brexit deal is that it must retain all the benefits of the single market and customs union?
    My reply was to muchthemiller. I linked his text to give my comment context. Why not read it.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    816
    Quote Originally Posted by great_fire View Post
    That's not true, that was always the goal, long before them.

    They were enthusiastic about expanding to Eastern Europe though because they wanted to undermine the German-French power axis.
    Whats not true?

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    5,479
    @ Wanchai

    I did read it and understood to what it related. I just don't understand how you think it helps, particularly when you are clearly a single market,/customs union supporter.

    I can't wait to see Much's response to your assertion that a country can cover off a deficit through gdp growth.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    15,050
    This is why a deal will be reached, behind all the politics and hot air there are serious consequences for some EU countries.


    Name:  F3689FA3-0144-43D4-8155-8CBB2DF93463.jpg
Views: 193
Size:  15.6 KB

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    816
    Quote Originally Posted by gm_gm View Post
    This is why a deal will be reached, behind all the politics and hot air there are serious consequences for some EU countries.


    Name:  F3689FA3-0144-43D4-8155-8CBB2DF93463.jpg
Views: 193
Size:  15.6 KB
    The old argument - they need us more than we need them.

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    7,456
    Quote Originally Posted by WanChaiMiller View Post
    Whats not true?
    That it was Thatcher and Major's idea.

    It was the idea all along.

    Heath famously hid the truth that the EEC was never supposed to be limited to a trading union.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    7,456
    Quote Originally Posted by gm_gm View Post
    This is why a deal will be reached, behind all the politics and hot air there are serious consequences for some EU countries.


    Name:  F3689FA3-0144-43D4-8155-8CBB2DF93463.jpg
Views: 193
Size:  15.6 KB
    Germany's exports are already falling.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    13,111
    McVey now resigned as of 10 minutes a go .

    I make that 22 minister's have now resigned since May became PM .

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    816
    Quote Originally Posted by KerrAvon View Post
    @ Wanchai

    I did read it and understood to what it related. I just don't understand how you think it helps, particularly when you are clearly a single market,/customs union supporter.

    I can't wait to see Much's response to your assertion that a country can cover off a deficit through gdp growth.
    Cant wait. My whole day is resting on it. Lol

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    7,456
    Quote Originally Posted by animallittle3 View Post
    McVey now resigned as of 10 minutes a go .

    I make that 22 minister's have now resigned since May became PM .
    How many to catch up with Corbyn?

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    816
    Quote Originally Posted by great_fire View Post
    That it was Thatcher and Major's idea.

    It was the idea all along.

    Heath famously hid the truth that the EEC was never supposed to be limited to a trading union.
    Whose idea was it then?

  14. #54
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    5,479
    Quote Originally Posted by gm_gm View Post
    This is why a deal will be reached, behind all the politics and hot air there are serious consequences for some EU countries.


    Name:  F3689FA3-0144-43D4-8155-8CBB2DF93463.jpg
Views: 193
Size:  15.6 KB
    You are ignoring two things:

    1. The EU countries will have the benefit of remaining in a huge trading bloc to partially offset any reduced trade iwith the UK; and
    2. The Europeans believe in the EU and are willing to endure economic pain to defend it.

  15. #55
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    7,456
    Quote Originally Posted by KerrAvon View Post
    You are ignoring two things:

    1. The EU countries will have the benefit of remaining in a huge trading bloc to partially offset any reduced trade iwith the UK; and
    2. The Europeans believe in the EU and are willing to endure economic pain to defend it.
    Unexpected decline in German industry output hints at economic slowdown
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-g...-idUSKCN1MI0FQ

    And who are "the Europeans"?

  16. #56
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    8,287
    Quote Originally Posted by great_fire View Post
    Germany's exports are already falling.


    Got fed up with tipping mi compter on its' side

  17. #57
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    7,456
    Quote Originally Posted by WanChaiMiller View Post
    Whose idea was it then?
    Count Richard von Coudenhove-Kalergi originally.

  18. #58
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    816
    Quote Originally Posted by great_fire View Post
    Count Richard von Coudenhove-Kalergi originally.
    Totally agree.

  19. #59
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    816
    Quote Originally Posted by great_fire View Post
    Germany's exports are already falling.
    Output falling due to uncertainty around USA.

  20. #60
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    7,456
    Quote Originally Posted by WanChaiMiller View Post
    Output falling due to uncertainty around USA.
    That diesel emissions scandal has also undermined confidence in their car industry.

    Also the move to electric cars.

    So they definitely need the UK to keep buying their cars, we're their biggest foreign market in Europe.

Page 3 of 137 FirstFirst 123451353103 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •