Originally Posted by
KerrAvon
Of course I am not saying that everyone who voted leave was aware of the potential economic costs (I was threatened with a ban on Tykes Mad for pointing some of them out as I was upsetting the ‘I don’t want to hear Polish being spoken’ brigade). I can always tell that you are getting flustered when you start taking such silly ‘straw man’ points. I assume that it happens when you been taken too far away from the comfort of your Momentum issue scripts.
I’m saying that people were warned in clear terms of the possible economic costs and that many chose not to listen, because their own beliefs made them happy to accept the ‘project fear’ tag. And then they voted leave. Do you think the standard of debate would be any better in a further election? I don’t. Hard Brexiteers were busily trashing the BoE’s forecasts today. The EU have made it clear that there will be no renegotiation, but Labour continue to peddle the myth that there can be if they win a GE.
And it’s not all about the economy. In addition there is the social costs of membership. Whatever you and I might think about it, large numbers of people are unsettled and unhappy about the large scale immigration that followed 2004. Perhaps some people made the choice to accept some economic pain to stop that?
You appear willing to ignore the vote and appear happy with Labour going back on their manifesto. That’s fine. It’s your choice.
So suppose you get your second referendum. What questions are going on it? If it’s a three way vote (May’s deal - No deal – Remain) the leavers are going to be up in arms because it’s a rigged election that will split the leave vote. If it’s a two way vote (Remain – Leave) it takes us no further from where we are now and if it’s two way (May – No deal) the remainers will not accept the outcome.
Most importantly, if you manage to obtain a remain vote, where does that leave us? A significant part of the population will feel mightily pyssed off at having their views overturned and you will have set a precedent that if you don’t like the outcome of a referendum, you can bellyache until you get another one. So how many years before the remainers secure a further in out vote? Two years – five years? You would hardly be in a position to be able to argue against having one.
I think it also possible that the referendum may well have changed the relationship between the UK and EU for good. For the last 20 years or so, the UK has been leading a small group of countries who have resisted the federalist instincts and intentions of France and Germany, notably by declining to join the Euro. I wonder whether we would have the credibility to continue that fight if we do a 180 and pull back from Article 50.
In my view, the country voted leave and leave we must. I’m happy to do it on the best terms possible, short of the Brexit in name only of deals like Norway has.
P.s. I hear a whisper that the DUP are taking a kicking from their supporters and are looking for a way to get out of the corner they have painted themselves into over May's deal. Who knows?