O/T DDay for Brexit..well sort of...

[Exiletyke]

Over a million of the leave voters have died since the referendum and nearly 2 million likely remain voters have entered voting age. Since February the majority of the electorate would have voted for Remain on the basis of demographic shift alone if not a single person changed their vote.

The mess of Brexit is out of the bottle no matter what, there is no happy outcome, but demographic shift is on the side of remain. We should at least ask the current electorate what they think of the actual deal on offer - that's the very definition of democratic. Many parties and politicians promised many conflicting things, why do the Brexiteers who promised £350m a week to the NHS get a free pass, but parties wanting to give the people a final say on the basis of actual facts get a hard time? Young people should not have to suffer the economic consequences of a protest vote serving a majority that is likely dead and buried

I think the Breiteer cause will fizzle out if a referendum shows the demographic shift is not on their side and we can put this sorry stain on our history behind us. A huge number of people will feel disenfranchised, and that is tragic, but there has to be a cost for this mess and it shouldn't be the young people who have to suffer any further. The baby boomers aren't leaving a very good legacy.

Iceland only has a population of around 340 000


I want whatever it is the remain voters are taking as none of them seem to have died in the last 3 years

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

Iceland only has a population of around 340 000


I want whatever it is the remain voters are taking as none of them seem to have died in the last 3 years

That’s the way it happens in John2’s fantasy world.

He even knows the way new voters will vote

[MillerBill]

Iceland only has a population of around 340 000


I want whatever it is the remain voters are taking as none of them seem to have died in the last 3 years

"A million leave voters have died",how low can these remoaners get.What about the lies to entice students to vote for labour by promising "no student fees". After they had captured their votes by dishonest means ,Corbyn confessed he could not deliver that but no apology.Also the promise of honouring the leave vote,once again another lie.

[John2]

"A million leave voters have died",how low can these remoaners get.What about the lies to entice students to vote for labour by promising "no student fees". After they had captured their votes by dishonest means ,Corbyn confessed he could not deliver that but no apology.Also the promise of honouring the leave vote,once again another lie.

The fact that people have died in 2016 is politically neutral: people die. The fact that older people overwhelmingly vote for leave and young voters overwhelmingly vote remain is also backed up in every survey since.

If the facts upset you, then you probably need to stop being such a snowflake.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-a8541576.html

[MillerBill]

"A million leave voters have died",how low can these remoaners get.What about the lies to entice students to vote for labour by promising "no student fees". After they had captured their votes by dishonest means ,Corbyn confessed he could not deliver that but no apology.Also the promise of honouring the leave vote,once again another lie.

That was directed at John2,not to you Tyke.

[John2]

That’s the way it happens in John2’s fantasy world.

He even knows the way new voters will vote

I don't, but neither do you... hence why we should have a new referendum.

On the basis of the demographic shift, you have to make the case that the votes of now dead people is more important than the votes of living people who were too young to vote at the time of the referendum that will affect the rest of their life.

[great_fire]

The fact that people have died in 2016 is politically neutral: people die. The fact that older people overwhelmingly vote for leave and young voters overwhelmingly vote remain is also backed up in every survey since.

If the facts upset you, then you probably need to stop being such a snowflake.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-a8541576.html

Yet the last referendum on Europe was in 1975.

No-one died or changed their minds in the 41 years between 1975 and 2016?

You are fundamentally dishonest.

[John2]

Yet the last referendum on Europe was in 1975.

No-one died or changed their minds in the 41 years between 1975 and 2016?

You are fundamentally dishonest.

How on earth have you come to the conclusion that I'm saying nobody changed their minds!?

You're fundamentally not understanding.

Let me spell it out. I'm saying remain has a majority on the basis of demographic shift but we have no way to know what the majority of the country wants now we know what the deal looks like unless we have a referendum. Asking the country what it wants on the basis of all the facts is the very epitome of democracy.

[KerrAvon]

Over a million of the leave voters have died since the referendum and nearly 2 million likely remain voters have entered voting age. Since February the majority of the electorate would have voted for Remain on the basis of demographic shift alone if not a single person changed their vote.

The mess of Brexit is out of the bottle no matter what, there is no happy outcome, but demographic shift is on the side of remain. We should at least ask the current electorate what they think of the actual deal on offer - that's the very definition of democratic. Many parties and politicians promised many conflicting things, why do the Brexiteers who promised £350m a week to the NHS get a free pass, but parties wanting to give the people a final say on the basis of actual facts get a hard time? Young people should not have to suffer the economic consequences of a protest vote serving a majority that is likely dead and buried

I think the Breiteer cause will fizzle out if a referendum shows the demographic shift is not on their side and we can put this sorry stain on our history behind us. A huge number of people will feel disenfranchised, and that is tragic, but there has to be a cost for this mess and it shouldn't be the young people who have to suffer any further. The baby boomers aren't leaving a very good legacy.

I agree that analysis of the 2016 vote shows that younger people were more likely to vote Remain than Leave. Following from that it"s hard to argue with the proposition that a higher proportion of the people who have died since then were Leave than Remain voters.

I think that where your argument falls down is that people do not stop aging after they reach 18. There is absolutely no reason to believe that the likely position of a member of the electorate on the EU remains static as they age. In other words there is no reason to believe that the Leave voters who have died since 2016 have not been replaced by Remainers who have changed their stance.

I voted remain in 2016, but would have to think long and hard before deciding how to vote in a further referendum.

You could put your theory to the test in a further referendum, but my observations on that remain. I think it would be incredibly harmful and would be unlikely to solve the issue.

I also question whether the quality of the debate within a further referendum campaign would be any better than in 2016 such as to leave the electorate better informed, John. Politicians from both sides of the debate are already spinning on the deal. Labour were doing it before the detail of the deal was announced. On here, we've had a harbinger of a new 'Project Fear' with a poster seeming to argue that accepting the deal would see a risk of British workers being given only six days of paid leave per year, even though we seemed to manage perfectly well before EU law on the issue.

And, of course, if you are right on the demographic point, surely you are only going to have to wait for a Parliament or two before the political make up of the country delivers a strong Parliamentary majority for rejoining the EU?

[KerrAvon]

How on earth have you come to the conclusion that I'm saying nobody changed their minds!?

The article that you linked to is expressly based upon the premise that nobody has changed their mind.