O/T DDay for Brexit..well sort of...

[flourbasher]

Please dont attempt pass on the blame. Businesses fear Brexit. The biggest fear is no deal brexit.

But what is the definition of a deal?
no one will know what the deal will be for at least 13 months and probably a lot longer. The govt is being made to sign up to a notion where the EU hold all the cards and once they,ve trapped us there,s no going back. Even when we,ve left the EU they will take us to the cleaners. Unbelievably bad negotiating skills forced on us by those that think they know better. In reality they haven,t thought it through.

The deal that opposers to a full Brexit have insisted on will cause significant problems, disappointment and arguments in due course. This is only the start of some serious problems

[KerrAvon]

If you think the nation wants Boris' deal, why would you fear a referendum?

Isn’t the reason to fear a further referendum that it might well not settle the issue?

17 million people voted to leave with the expectation that their desire to do so would be honoured by the Parliament that gave them the vote. A year after the referendum, the two largest parties stood in a General Election on manifestoes that promised to honour its outcome. They have now had a year of Parliament seeming to be intent upon not delivering on that.

Even if a sufficient number of 2016 Leave voters have now changed their mind to deliver a remain vote, there would inevitably be a large number - many millions - who would feel betrayed and angry by such an outcome. They aren’t going to be quiet and mildly accept such a volte face; they are going to agitate and some will organise, leading to The Brexit Party, or which ever vehicle Farage is using, to become a permanent player in British politics. Every General Election for the next twenty years or so will have the possibility of once again trying to leave on the agenda and, eventually, a party or coalition that promises to leave will take control of Parliament. And the danger for liberal minded people such as you and I is that such a party or coalition may not offer the managed departure that is on offer from Johnson.

Or, to put it more briefly, the Leave genie is out of the bottle and it isn’t going back in any time soon.

[KerrAvon]

Pathetic Lib Lab liers with the assistance of the slimy remainiac snake Bercow obstruct this country progressing and further delay the EU exit.Businesses in this country, through this uncertainty are struggling and jobs are at risk.Opposition MPs couldn't care a toss about these job losses.85% voted in the last election on the basis Brexit would be honoured.There is only one party now standing for the vote of the people.Labour by pushing for another referendum are not to be trusted ever again,they are an absolute disgrace.

The Lib Dems stood on a ticket of trying to reverse the outcome of the referendum. They are at least trying to do what they said they would do even if what they promised to do is - in my opinion - misguided.

[great_fire]

If you can ignore the result of the first referendum you can ignore the result of the second one too so totally pointless.

[MillerBill]

If you think the nation wants Boris' deal, why would you fear a referendum?

Since we have already voted against remainining in the EU.Only a binary referendum of No deal or the deal that has been agreed with the EU, would be accepted.That is democracy.

[ragingpup]

Make it clear
Which of my two points are you referring to?

Blaming the EU for domestic government failure :

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...y_to_clipboard

https://www.theguardian.com/business...y_to_clipboard

[MillerBill]

The Lib Dems stood on a ticket of trying to reverse the outcome of the referendum. They are at least trying to do what they said they would do even if what they promised to do is - in my opinion - misguided.

Yes you are right Kerr,they were the only party that stood for remaining in the EU and they got 10% backing.That shows what support remain had .

[flourbasher]

The Lib Dems stood on a ticket of trying to reverse the outcome of the referendum. They are at least trying to do what they said they would do even if what they promised to do is - in my opinion - misguided.

This is only in recent times though isn,t it.
Seems like cheap vote buying to me

[WanChaiMiller]

If you can ignore the result of the first referendum you can ignore the result of the second one too so totally pointless.

Lets hope leave win again then - lol.

[John2]

Isn’t the reason to fear a further referendum that it might well not settle the issue?

17 million people voted to leave with the expectation that their desire to do so would be honoured by the Parliament that gave them the vote. A year after the referendum, the two largest parties stood in a General Election on manifestoes that promised to honour its outcome. They have now had a year of Parliament seeming to be intent upon not delivering on that.

Even if a sufficient number of 2016 Leave voters have now changed their mind to deliver a remain vote, there would inevitably be a large number - many millions - who would feel betrayed and angry by such an outcome. They aren’t going to be quiet and mildly accept such a volte face; they are going to agitate and some will organise, leading to The Brexit Party, or which ever vehicle Farage is using, to become a permanent player in British politics. Every General Election for the next twenty years or so will have the possibility of once again trying to leave on the agenda and, eventually, a party or coalition that promises to leave will take control of Parliament. And the danger for liberal minded people such as you and I is that such a party or coalition may not offer the managed departure that is on offer from Johnson.

Or, to put it more briefly, the Leave genie is out of the bottle and it isn’t going back in any time soon.

Over a million of the leave voters have died since the referendum and nearly 2 million likely remain voters have entered voting age. Since February the majority of the electorate would have voted for Remain on the basis of demographic shift alone if not a single person changed their vote.

The mess of Brexit is out of the bottle no matter what, there is no happy outcome, but demographic shift is on the side of remain. We should at least ask the current electorate what they think of the actual deal on offer - that's the very definition of democratic. Many parties and politicians promised many conflicting things, why do the Brexiteers who promised £350m a week to the NHS get a free pass, but parties wanting to give the people a final say on the basis of actual facts get a hard time? Young people should not have to suffer the economic consequences of a protest vote serving a majority that is likely dead and buried

I think the Breiteer cause will fizzle out if a referendum shows the demographic shift is not on their side and we can put this sorry stain on our history behind us. A huge number of people will feel disenfranchised, and that is tragic, but there has to be a cost for this mess and it shouldn't be the young people who have to suffer any further. The baby boomers aren't leaving a very good legacy.