O/T DDay for Brexit..well sort of...

[WanChaiMiller]

For example. The EU has set the tariff to 40% for meat products outside the EU and 20% for countries inside the EU. So if we wanted to trade meat products with say Japan, this would mean that we would have to trade through the EU at the 40% tariff because they are outside the EU and we could not trade direct with Japan because EU law says we cannot do that.

I hope that helps you understand

Of course it helps. It makes me realise that when we leave the EU the duty set for meat exports to the EU will be 40% and will kill this part of our export trade for farmers.

[WanChaiMiller]

FFS how many times do people need telling that it is in the best interests of every country we as a nation do business with to continue doing business with us at the lowest possible cost for both goods in and goods out. Nobody will price themselves out of the market because that is just stupid.

Tariffs are set by each country that does business with each other and then the WTO oversees that that those tariffs are not changed, broken or otherwise reneged on. This is a binding contract in law. How hard is that to understand!

I think Xi Jinping and Donald Trump need you as a special envoy.

[Exiletyke]

I'm not quite sure why you believe there is a clique of civil servants desperate that the UK remains in the EU. There isn't. I should know as I was one. The Civil Service has no preference either way. That is not how it works. The "absurdity" at the heart of the Brexit experiment has nothing to do with Whitehall Mad Hatters but accurately reflects the absurdity of Brexit itself. It cannot be achieved without serious political , social and economic consequences.

This is an extract from a poster in November on this Civil Servant issue
Sums it up well


14-11-2018, 07:02 PM #6
Muchthemillersson

Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty was introduced by the EU to ensure that the European Union controlled any potential exit of a member state and gave it the power to put such obstacles in the way any of member wishing to leave that they might change their mind and would certainly put off anyone else who might think of leaving. It beggars belief that a UK government would be stupid enough to invoke Article 50 but that ignorance of EU matters and control over our sovereignty blighted this government and probably all of its predecessors.

The second major strategic error of the government was to give control of the withdrawal plans to the civil servants in Whitehall. The very organisations that for the last two generations have known nothing other than this method of lawmaking coming from Brussels. The government gave the impression that nothing was being done to prepare for withdrawal but right from the very beginning around 200 civil servants were involved in the negotiations with Brussels. Many of whom have worked their entire working lives implementing directives from Brussels into UK law. They are the very last people who should be employed to unscramble the mess they have created over the last 40 years or so.

[BigLadonOS]

Thank you for your advise but dont think you have a full understanding.

WTO rules and regulations are made by them at their hq in Swirzerland. Trade disputes are settled by WTO tribunals in Geneva. Please do not confuse trading through the WTO with bringing sovereignty or control of our trade relations back to the UK.

Tariff are set globally by WTO. If we trade under wto rules, tariff are set by them. We have the scope to alter import duty. But, if we do so, it has to be done at the same rate for every country with which we trade. We cannot make separate trade tariff arrangements per country. We have influence over the rate for imports but cannot use those same rates for exports. We cannot alter trading terms and conditions.

It is quite simply a dumb way to do international business. No other country uses it as their preferred way to do world trade (apart from Mauritania).

FFS, do me a favour and read this and you might at last understand what the WTO is all about.

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/wp-content/upl...Long-Guide.pdf

Read carefully the part about who makes the trading rules within the WTO and what exactly the WTO do. Also read the part about how many countries use the WTO as its preferred trading platform.

I will just leave you this little snippet to have a quick glance over.

It should be noted that not all countries are members of the WTO. Non-members are typically smaller countries, but there are some with which the UK has significant trade with, including Azerbaijan (£800 million trade in 2016) and Serbia (£400 million). The EU has agreements with both countries, though, which cover the same areas as the WTO agreements would do, showing how the WTO provides a basic structure of trade which would have to be recreated in bilateral agreements if the WTO did not exist.

The Structure of the WTO

The WTO is a member-driven organisation: the main decision-making bodies comprise all members and decisions are made by consensus.

Unlike the EU, the WTO does not have institutions, such as the European Commission, composed of officials who act independently of the member states (except for dispute resolution—see below). In the jargon, the WTO is an ‘intergovernmental’ organisation: decisions are made exclusively by the governments of WTO member states. The role of the WTO Secretariat (i.e. the people who actually work for the WTO itself) is limited to providing technical and professional support to the governments. The Secretariat does
not have decision-making powers and, unlike the European Commission, cannot bring action against states who do not comply with WTO rules.

The highest authority in the WTO is the Ministerial Conference, which, like almost all WTO bodies, is composed of representatives of all WTO members. The Ministerial Conference enjoys very broad powers.

During its meetings, which happen at least every two years, decisions on all aspects of the WTO system may be taken.

The body that oversees the day-to-day work of the WTO is the General Council, which is also composed of representatives of all member governments. It reports to the Ministerial Conference.

The work of the General Council is supported by three searate Councils: the Council of Trade in Goods, the Council of Trade in Services and the Council for Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property. Like the Ministerial Conference and the General Council, these three bodies are also composed of representatives of all member governments. Goods and Services Councils also have important committees, on key issues such as agriculture, Sanitary and Phyto-sanitary (SPS) matters, Technical Barriers to Trade (TBT), fair pricing (anti-dumping), state aids (subsidies), rules negotiations and domestic regulation of services. This is where the real work is done on a wide range of policies and actions that directly affect trade. Although the EU is an independent member of the WTO, in addition to its 28 member states (i.e. together they constitute 29 independent members), it is customary for the EU to represent its member states in the WTO in all trade issues and disputes (except the budget and administration). In WTO meetings, the
European Commission speaks on behalf of all EU member states whose representatives usually remain silent.

Member states support this arrangement because acting as a bloc gives them greater leverage in WTO negotiations.

[WanChaiMiller]

Thank you big lad. I will read it over the week but will just quote this from it (in fsct the only bit Ive read si far)

"As we will see below, this means import duties and various controls will be imposed on trade between the
UK and the EU, with impacts concentrated in agriculture and industries that depend on products which
repeatedly cross between the UK and the rest of the EU, such as components to make cars or ingredients
for processing food.
On top of that, the UK would lose the benefit of free trade agreements it now has with countries such as
South Korea and Canada as a member of the EU. Therefore, more British imports and exports would face
tariffs.
And it means UK services, which can now access the whole of the EU’s single market (i.e. currently, the 28
member states plus Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway) relatively freely, would only be allowed the much
more restricted access of the EU and UK’s commitments in the WTO.
Trading only on WTO terms is the default position, but in fact no country does it."

I will quote the last sentence "Trading only on WTO terms is the default position, BUT IN FACT NO COUNTRY DOES IT."

[animallittle3]

I would say after today's events and the likelihood of Boris Johnson becoming PM a no deal departure from the EU looks inevitable .

If the Tories elect Johnson I would suggest that is what they are actually voting for .

It's difficult to see a remainer within the Tory Party winning any leadership contest given today's climate .

[rolymiller]

Whoever the new PM will be it wont make any difference as regards the Brexit negotiations because you would need to change the entire make up of the h of p to do that. The same stalemate will carry on.

[Shark27]

I will quote the last sentence "Trading only on WTO terms is the default position, BUT IN FACT NO COUNTRY DOES IT."

Is that because all countries agree their own terms?

[animallittle3]

Whoever the new PM will be it wont make any difference as regards the Brexit negotiations because you would need to change the entire make up of the h of p to do that. The same stalemate will carry on.

It's more or less a straight fight between leave without a deal or remain within the EU in my opinion .

With Farage back on the scene and stealing their votes ( as well as Labour ) the tories dare not elect a remainer or a soft brexit supporter .

A hard brexit PM will most certainly take us out without a deal in October , Johnson on the campaign trail already said as much today .

The EU would have to spectacularly back track on their stance thus far for a deal to be struck , highly unlikely .

Any thoughts of another referendum with a hard brexiter as PM and a cabinet full of adoring minions can finally be put to bed once and for all I'd suggest .

I think the best thing remainers can do is lay down their weapons and accept the game is almost up .

[BigLadonOS]

[QUOTE= WanChaiMiller View Post
I will quote the last sentence "Trading only on WTO terms is the default position, BUT IN FACT NO COUNTRY DOES IT."[/QUOTE]

****k Me at last I think you understand that we set our own tariffs.