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Thread: O/T DDay for Brexit..well sort of...

  1. #1591
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    The promise was an in/out referendum. Not in or out with a deal etc.

    It's high time the remain biased politicians respected the result of the vote and Leave europe without a deal! instead of doing all in their power to prevent it.

    People need to remember what was promised and delivered by David Cameron, even if he didn't like the answer he got!

    Anything other than leaving the EU would be a betrayal of democracy and the concequences i imagine will be devastating for politicians and the country as a whole.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21148282

  2. #1592
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    Mar 2008
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    Exactly, there shouldn't even be Remainers any more as the country voted to leave, 3 years ago.

  3. #1593
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    ‘Leave means leave’

  4. #1594
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    The problem for you no deal supporters are stuck with though is that your outcome is a minority one. It will remain that way until you put your desired outcome up against another specific outcome, whether that be May's deal,, Remain or any other. The only way to find out if it is what the people specifically want is to put it up for referendum. I'm not in favour of a 2nd vote myself but if you guys keep trying to claim some kind of victory for no deal, when the referendum vote was not for leaving with no deal, then I'll push for a 2nd vote. **** it.

  5. #1595
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    May 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by rolymiller View Post
    Are we right to assume that the million demonstrators in London at the moment for the people's vote are remainers? If they are, where are the brexiteers apart from a few listening to the ramblings of Farage on his bus. Can we assume that this could indicate there is more passion to remain in the EU now than to get out of it?
    Are we right to assume that if your vote wins in a supposedly democratic referendum then the outcome should stand?

    Are we right to assume that the people marching have no regard for democracy?

  6. #1596
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    Jun 2004
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    185
    Quote Originally Posted by ragingpup View Post
    The problem for you no deal supporters are stuck with though is that your outcome is a minority one. It will remain that way until you put your desired outcome up against another specific outcome, whether that be May's deal,, Remain or any other. The only way to find out if it is what the people specifically want is to put it up for referendum. I'm not in favour of a 2nd vote myself but if you guys keep trying to claim some kind of victory for no deal, when the referendum vote was not for leaving with no deal, then I'll push for a 2nd vote. **** it.
    Everyone has their own personal slant on it, so I'm not saying that my view is the gospel truth. But I voted based on what was on the Ballot paper. To Leave. No mention of a deal, just to leave. If you want to flip that line of thinking on its head, why don't we the slice Remain vote into all the sub categories? Remain and accept any version of Remain, Remain but only if the EU reforms, Remain and sign up to Schengen and the Euro, Remain and Sign up to a Federal Europe. If Remain had won the vote, would we be able to legitimately state that the Remainers voted without knowing exactly what "Remain" entailed?

    I know many people who voted to remain for no other reason than they didn't want to be on the same side as people like Farage. Quite happy to be on the same side as the equally noxious Tony Blair, but they didn't want to be on what had been painted by the media as the "Evil" side. The side full of "xenophobic little Englanders." "We don't want to be on that side, we know sod all about the EU policies but we'll vote to stay cos thats what all the humanitarian celebrities are doing." Would Leave voters be able to demand a second referendum based on the fact so many people voted Remain without knowing what that actually meant, or couldn't demonstrate on a ballot what "Remain" looked like?

    I am starting to feel I want a second referendum now, No Deal vs Remain. Then I would be very interested to see what would happen should No Deal win the vote. If Remain won the vote, then naturally I'd want a third referendum and cite that Remainers didn't know what they were voting for. And so it goes on........

  7. #1597
    Quote Originally Posted by DaveyJohn View Post
    Everyone has their own personal slant on it, so I'm not saying that my view is the gospel truth. But I voted based on what was on the Ballot paper. To Leave. No mention of a deal, just to leave. If you want to flip that line of thinking on its head, why don't we the slice Remain vote into all the sub categories? Remain and accept any version of Remain, Remain but only if the EU reforms, Remain and sign up to Schengen and the Euro, Remain and Sign up to a Federal Europe. If Remain had won the vote, would we be able to legitimately state that the Remainers voted without knowing exactly what "Remain" entailed?

    I know many people who voted to remain for no other reason than they didn't want to be on the same side as people like Farage. Quite happy to be on the same side as the equally noxious Tony Blair, but they didn't want to be on what had been painted by the media as the "Evil" side. The side full of "xenophobic little Englanders." "We don't want to be on that side, we know sod all about the EU policies but we'll vote to stay cos thats what all the humanitarian celebrities are doing." Would Leave voters be able to demand a second referendum based on the fact so many people voted Remain without knowing what that actually meant, or couldn't demonstrate on a ballot what "Remain" looked like?

    I am starting to feel I want a second referendum now, No Deal vs Remain. Then I would be very interested to see what would happen should No Deal win the vote. If Remain won the vote, then naturally I'd want a third referendum and cite that Remainers didn't know what they were voting for. And so it goes on........
    Well said.

  8. #1598
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    May 2003
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    8,180
    Perhaps.....

    ...tolerate no opposition - recognise only compliance – authority downwards and responsibility upwards.... When once the establishment forces realise that only the ruling party can win the working people over to the country and that no parliamentary games can be played with opposition parties, then we will be saved for all time, then we can found a true UK...

    well?

  9. #1599
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    Sep 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragingpup View Post
    The problem for you no deal supporters are stuck with though is that your outcome is a minority one. It will remain that way until you put your desired outcome up against another specific outcome, whether that be May's deal,, Remain or any other. The only way to find out if it is what the people specifically want is to put it up for referendum. I'm not in favour of a 2nd vote myself but if you guys keep trying to claim some kind of victory for no deal, when the referendum vote was not for leaving with no deal, then I'll push for a 2nd vote. **** it.
    Raging , if you believe a second referendum will somehow make all this right then I think you are wrong .

    The Referendum result stands , has to stand or the whole political system will break down .

    The way the second referendum is offered up as some kind of salvation to this issue is flawed .

    It will actually divide the country further and there's no telling what could happen on our streets .

    The result stands and we ride this thing out now with a deal or no deal .

  10. #1600
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
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    7,307
    Quote Originally Posted by DaveyJohn View Post
    Everyone has their own personal slant on it, so I'm not saying that my view is the gospel truth. But I voted based on what was on the Ballot paper. To Leave. No mention of a deal, just to leave. If you want to flip that line of thinking on its head, why don't we the slice Remain vote into all the sub categories? Remain and accept any version of Remain, Remain but only if the EU reforms, Remain and sign up to Schengen and the Euro, Remain and Sign up to a Federal Europe. If Remain had won the vote, would we be able to legitimately state that the Remainers voted without knowing exactly what "Remain" entailed?

    I know many people who voted to remain for no other reason than they didn't want to be on the same side as people like Farage. Quite happy to be on the same side as the equally noxious Tony Blair, but they didn't want to be on what had been painted by the media as the "Evil" side. The side full of "xenophobic little Englanders." "We don't want to be on that side, we know sod all about the EU policies but we'll vote to stay cos thats what all the humanitarian celebrities are doing." Would Leave voters be able to demand a second referendum based on the fact so many people voted Remain without knowing what that actually meant, or couldn't demonstrate on a ballot what "Remain" looked like?

    I am starting to feel I want a second referendum now, No Deal vs Remain. Then I would be very interested to see what would happen should No Deal win the vote. If Remain won the vote, then naturally I'd want a third referendum and cite that Remainers didn't know what they were voting for. And so it goes on........
    I actually agree with you. The original binary vote would only be valid if it was clearly 'leave without a deal'. But most in the leave campaign went to great lengths to secure votes by saying that it would be easy, once we voted to leave to secure a trade deal with the EU. So x number of people voted to leave based on this being easy to be secured.

    I think we can safely say that the 48% remainers would vote to remain. The question is how many of the 52% want to leave with no deal?

    I suspect very strongly that more than 2% want to leave but only with a deal? Do you contest that? On what basis? We're meant to be a democracy. If we aim to be this, we need to frame democratic decisions with clarity. The original vote made no clear distinction between leave with deal and leave with no deal, and so we are ****ed for clarity. Its that simple.

    So leave with no deal remains, democratically, a minority deal. Unless we can prove otherwise. By...a confirmation vote with clarity of choice on the vote this time?

    Actually, personally, if rather just not do that. Id rather just the mps have free votes to establish the consensus on the most popular deal. If you don't trust the mps, then fine, put it back to the people. But don't just claim a victory that you aren't entitled to.

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