O/T DDay for Brexit..well sort of...

[WanChaiMiller]

Take the blinkers off.The EU is sinking faster than the Titanic.Look what's happening in France,Italy, Germany etc.It's a disaster!!

Talking of project fear. More total fantasy brexit nonsense.

[KerrAvon]

The current back stop in the deal for the island of Ireland was apparently the government's proposal and after much huffing and puffing was accepted by the EU .

As one EU big wig put it tonight " I'm at a loss why your government wants to renegotiate it's own proposal " , he looked totally bemused .

You couldn't make this up .

There will be a conclusion Mrs May , delay it all you want but it will happen eventually .

Yesterday you put your own political life and that of your party before democracy and parliament by playing for time when the reality is you don't have any time .

I'd be interested to know too why parliament will be breaking up for the xmas holidays , really !! , you should take xmas day off and that's about it given the seriousness of the situation .

Fatal error today Mrs May played out before the electorate and the worlds media .

This country is broken possibly for decades because of this thing , my word didn't you get the real UK laid bare Mr Cameron and you never even saw it coming and further proof Eton just provides the country with confident idiots but idiots none the less .

Not fit to govern , make way please .

Given that they won't move aside and Corbyn is being slow to take the one step that he could to try to make them, what is Labour's answer?

Are you in support of the further referendum favoured by Momentum, much of the PLP and your pick for leader - Starmer?

Or do you favour the ultra hard, job destroying Brexit that you called for a couple of days ago?

[WanChaiMiller]

As for that bunch in Brussels you'd whistle for your £39bn if it was left to me .

We might need every penny we can get in the years ahead .

Oh ey. And why might we need every penny? Is this an admission that brexit will be a total financial disaster for the UK economy? What about Farage and Johnsons assertion we are going global and brexit is a fantastic opportunity for this country?

[millmoormagic]

In other words, he knows that he can't win so he isn't calling for a vote.

.....just yet, obviously.......please keep up....

[ragingpup]

How have I landed a Tory policy? The vote has been pulled primarily because Tory MPs won't support it.

I know Labour's position - all six bullet points. They wish to remain in the CU and Single Market, which in turn means accepting the four freedoms, paying into the EU budget and the jurisdiction of the EU. In otherwords Brexit in name only. The party has also been moving behind a further referendum as per the extensive debate and fudging at their conference.

Are you sure about that? If the EU gave us all of those concessions for the withdrawal agreement and pledges for the future trading agreement as you have argued, what makes you think they wouldn't make similar surprising concessions on a deal that focuses on frictionless trade. It would be more favoured by the EUas it keeps us closer to them. This way, we would have to make some unfavourable concessions but might, crucially, achieve something closer to frictionless trade with the added advantage of not requiring the damaging backstop and gain a commons majority. It would depend on what concessions we could achieve/have to make on FoM and ECJ.

The EU have said they won't renegotiate, but I'd bet they would if the deal swung in this direction.

[KerrAvon]

Are you sure about that? If the EU gave us all of those concessions for the withdrawal agreement and pledges for the future trading agreement as you have argued, what makes you think they wouldn't make similar surprising concessions on a deal that focuses on frictionless trade. It would be more favoured by the EUas it keeps us closer to them. This way, we would have to make some unfavourable concessions but might, crucially, achieve something closer to frictionless trade with the added advantage of not requiring the damaging backstop and gain a commons majority. It would depend on what concessions we could achieve/have to make on FoM and ECJ.

The EU have said they won't renegotiate, but I'd bet they would if the deal swung in this direction.

Yes, I'm sure about that.

Can I just check that you understand that Labour's six bullet point plan includes a commitment to remaining in the Single Market and that the Single Market includes the four freedoms? In other words, you are suggesting that the EU would make concessions on the fundamental principles upon which it is based. You are saying that they would rip up Lisbon and Maastricht. Where would that leave other countries in the EU who don't like freedom of movement?

This is the problem; you don't like the deal on the table and so you choose to believe that a deal that you would like is available. That's what MPs are doing and that's why Parliament is now playing a game of chicken with no deal approaching fast (because that is the only outcome that doesn't need Parliamentary approval).

I could be wrong. Why don't you write to your MP and suggest that a Labour delegation go to the EU negotiating team to ask whether they would give a Labour government a deal where we get all the benefits of membership with none of the costs and obligations that go with it. A Labour Party that achieved that would be swept to power on a landslide.

[MillerBill]

Talking of project fear. More total fantasy brexit nonsense.

All my statements are factual,I want a positive future for my kids.The under 25s in the EU have been left in the unemployment wilderness by the wicked EU bureaucrats (apart from Germany of course the true leaders).I do not want to be shackled to this dictatorship and allow my kids to end up this way.Soros and his mob give out all the fantasy nonsense.

[KerrAvon]

Oh ey. And why might we need every penny? Is this an admission that brexit will be a total financial disaster for the UK economy? What about Farage and Johnsons assertion we are going global and brexit is a fantastic opportunity for this country?

animal seems to want to do a Philip Green and walk away from our obligations to pay pensions to the EU employees who accrued their rights during the period of our membership.

Labour could use the money to pay three and a half years of the tution fee bribe

[WanChaiMiller]

All my statements are factual,I want a positive future for my kids.The under 25s in the EU have been left in the unemployment wilderness by the wicked EU bureaucrats (apart from Germany of course the true leaders).I do not want to be shackled to this dictatorship and allow my kids to end up this way.Soros and his mob give out all the fantasy nonsense.

Please explain what the wicked bureaucrats of the EU did to render the under 25s unemployed?

[WanChaiMiller]

All my statements are factual,I want a positive future for my kids.The under 25s in the EU have been left in the unemployment wilderness by the wicked EU bureaucrats (apart from Germany of course the true leaders).I do not want to be shackled to this dictatorship and allow my kids to end up this way.Soros and his mob give out all the fantasy nonsense.

Ok. Here is one fact you are peddling and its pretty fundemental.

You imply bureaucrats can pass legislation and that the EU is an undemocratic dictatorship.

This is simply not true. All legislation has to pass through 2 houses, the Parliament (fully elected by citizens of member states) and the Council (members nominated by the government of each country).