O/T DDay for Brexit..well sort of...

[ragingpup]

In what way distortion? I merely relayed what you meant rather than what you said.

I've just explained what I meant? How do you make that into a :let's all hold hands ' situation? It's about good basic leadership of people with widely differing opinions.

[WanChaiMiller]

Brexiteers know that they want to leave the EU, WanChai. That is how they are defined.

The difficulty is in how they want to leave, if that is what you meant? That is obviously right: There is a spectrum of views from a no deal Farage to a super soft Stephen Kinnock.

I would argue that both the May and Johnson deals fall towards the centre of the spectrum. I do wonder if some Labour MPs are kicking themselves now for rejecting May.

Yes that is what I mean.

There is a notion they want to leave but no concensus for what that should look like and no plan for how it can be achieved.

Today, three years down the line, you have 2 of the main players at odds with what brexit should be.

[CASPER-64-FRANK]

Brexiteers still dont know what they want.

A % of leavers that based their vote just on immigration know exactly what they want.

[WanChaiMiller]

A % of leavers that based their vote just on immigration know exactly what they want.

Lol. Yes.

[tony260674]

Farage likes to be in the public eye, so of course he likes to say things like that. It extends his political shelf life.

That's the problem with Brexit - so many agendas. You've got the Lib Dems and SNP who want to remain and Labour who appear to want to be Leave and Remain simultaneously, but when pushed favour a soft 'we want to accept EU law even though we will have no say in it's contents' exit . You've got Farage for whom only no deal will be acceptable and the Tories who favour a moderately hard exit.

Raging wants them to come up with a solution that makes everyone happy (provided that it is a soft Labour solution).

This is the daftest thing you have ever come up with and that is saying something.
The referendum, the last election, the tory leadership contest have all been about the fight for the heart of the Conservative party with your one nation tories in one corner and the hardened euro sceptics in the other corner. It has now come to the boil even more as the euro sceptics are behind a deal which on paper is almost identical to the one they decried, simply because the person putting it forward is one of theirs. The hilarious thing about it all is that for 15 years Johnson was far more pro-eu than Corbyn ever was.
All the MP's in parliament are conflicted now between their ideologies, attempting to follow what they see as democracy (ie voting against their conscience by voting the way their constituents did) and political tactics/personal ambitions.

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

Beyond all this arguing there’s only one thing that’s clear

If you live north of Watford you’re basically ****ed

At one time there was a glimmer of hope that come a Labour government that things would improve up here. Brexit has shown that Labour has abandoned the north in favour of London and its surrounds.

[great_fire]

Farage has never supported a deal, so there's no again about it. That being said, I think the electoral threat to the Tories that The Brexit Party posed has been reduced by recent events.

DUP don't support it either, or the Bruges Group.

[ragingpup]

Brexiteers know that they want to leave the EU, WanChai. That is how they are defined.

The difficulty is in how they want to leave, if that is what you meant? That is obviously right: There is a spectrum of views from a no deal Farage to a super soft Stephen Kinnock.

I would argue that both the May and Johnson deals fall towards the centre of the spectrum. I do wonder if some Labour MPs are kicking themselves now for rejecting May.

I actually agree with you that the deals negotiated are compromises from a no deal brexit but are a bit short of the centre ground. With a bit more concession, not least by finding a domestic guarantee of standards (which could be defined and legislated domestically without tying to the EU?) then I think we're nearly there. And hope so too.

[ragingpup]

Beyond all this arguing there’s only one thing that’s clear

If you live north of Watford you’re basically ****ed

At one time there was a glimmer of hope that come a Labour government that things would improve up here. Brexit has shown that Labour has abandoned the north in favour of London and its surrounds.

Aren't you happy that parliament has agreed a deal, at least in principle, and with some scrutiny and minor tweaking will most likely be agreed soon. Thought you'd be happy? (although of course this is Gristy we're talking about) ;-)

[ragingpup]

DUP don't support it either, or the Bruges Group.

Do you support the deal Fire? Or do you want parliament to block it for you?