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Never said anything of the sort.Originally Posted by Elite_Pie
However, the UK along with France, rank among the 3 power of forces in NATO. Both are nuclear powers. you work it out Einstein.
Whenever the UN sanctions action, who's thrown to the front? Germany/Holland/Italy? Nope have another go.
It amazes me how we was sold this "pup" in 1972 under the guise of a free trade market. Now you are asking what's wrong with a European army?
You ought to stand on that pedestal you put yourself on. Instead of ramming it up your ass.
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As I wrote on another thread, majority voting has been adopted in a lot of sectors at the EU but doesn't apply for matters of security and defence.
It would have to be unanimously agreed to form it and unanimously agreed to deploy it.
Why are we even talking about this?
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It happens all the time doesn't it? US soldiers in WW1, British soldiers in Iraq, Peacekeeping missions etc
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I'll tell you why Driller, because didn't "know what they was voting for" to borrow a phrase.
FCO 30/1018 Heath's legacy
Here are just a few of the damning sentences:
Parliament controlled
Membership of the Communities will involve us in extensive limitations upon our freedom of action.
For the first time. Parliament is binding its successors.
Increasing loss of sovereignty
The loss of external sovereignty will however increase as the Community develops, according to the intention of the preamble to the Treaty of Rome “to establish the foundations of an even closer union among the European peoples “.
Small threats to sovereignty, like Burgess, Blunt and Maclean’s selling secrets to the Russians, attract 30 year jail sentences. The penalty for actually loosing even small parts of it until 1998 was “to hang by the neck until dead.”
King Charles 1st was executed for treason that was, by comparison, relatively minor.
Lord Haw Haw (“Germany Calling” – William Joyce) was hanged for treason on 3rd January 1946. His efforts on behalf of Germany were tiny by comparison with Edward Heath’s.
Our law subservient
(ii) The power of the European Court to consider the extent to which a UK statute is compatible with Community Law will indirectly involve an innovation for us, as the European Court’s decisions will be binding on our courts which might then have to rule on the validity or applicability of the United Kingdom statute.
The writ of a foreign power is not allowed under the British Constitution, which Heath was breaking.
Predicting monetary and military union
18..but it will be in the British interest after accession to encourage the development of the Community toward an effectively harmonised economic, fiscal and monetary system and a fairly closely coordinated and consistent foreign and defence policy. If it came to do so then essential aspects of sovereignty both internal and external would indeed increasingly be transferred to the Community itself.
No withdrawal, sovereignty diminished
Even with the most dramatic development of the Community the major member states can hardly lose the “last resort” ability to withdraw in much less than three decades. The Community’s development could produce before then a period in which the political practicability of withdrawal was doubtful. If the point should ever be reached at which inability to renounce the Treaty (and with it the degeneration of the national institutions which could opt for such a policy) was clear, then sovereignty, external, parliamentary and practical would indeed be diminished.
Disinformation
After entry there would be a major responsibility on HMG and on all political parties not to exacerbate public concern by attributing unpopular measures or unfavourable economic developments to the remote and unmanageable workings of the Community.
Transfer of the Executive
24 (ii) The transfer of major executive responsibilities to the bureaucratic Commission in Brussels will exacerbate popular feeling of alienation from government.
Erosion of sovereignty
24 (v) …The more the Community is developed … the more Parliamentary sovereignty will be eroded. …The right … to withdraw will remain for a very considerable time. …The sovereignty of the State will surely remain unchallenged for this century at least.
The EU Bureaucracy will rule
The impact of entry upon sovereignty is closely related to the blurring of distinctions between domestic political and foreign affairs, to the greater political responsibility of the bureaucracy of the Community and the lack of effective democratic control.
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Yes there's a loss of sovereignty involved in being a member of the EU, I think 99% of people would grant you that, but we're talking about an EU army aren't we?
I repeat, can't happen without a unanimous vote, can't be used without a unanimous vote, probably will never happen anyway. It's the Turkish migrant invasion Mk 2.
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So you like the idea of an Army fatboy .What about a EU Navy as well? Maybe not a good idea . Instead of defending us against potential threats or carrying out humantirian duties we might be to busy bumming each other.
ps. Before others jump in, the guy as made many homophobic remarks against the Navy.
Last edited by navypie; 28-11-2018 at 10:48 PM.
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Sorry, I wasn't aware you were an integral part of the Front Line Strategy Committee for the proposed EU army.
My mistake.
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Bank of England have said that a no deal scenario could lead to a crash worse than 2008, lower house prices and job losses.
An honest opinion or project fear?
I say an honest opinion as I don't believe that they would be as reckless to lie when so much is at stake.
Still haven't seen any leave projections as to what will happen.
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Like I have said before on here, these are just predictions and like the treasury department, the BOE got their predictions completly wrong in 2016. All they have done is said what they said back then and still people think this will happen. We have no idea and that goes for the Government, the opposition, the BOE, in fact everyone. So lets wait and see what happens and stop all this scaremongering.
Like has been mentioned on here, I also believe that we should have another vote. But as I also believe in democracy, then since the country voted to leave, then the next vote should be a simple no deal or May's deal and let the people decide. Then take it from there and deal with what is thrown at us
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It's very different to 2016 though. That was talking about a response to the vote, when no-one knew what the deal would be etc. There's more knowledge now (not total though).
No-one from the Brexit side appears to be willing to say how they think it will pan out. JRM says the predictions 'lack all credibility' Just a 'head in the sand' response. I hope he never gets near no. 10!
Brexiters keep saying let's walk away with no deal. What would that look like - how would it work? To me it would be a reckless thing to do.
If you can tell me how 'no deal' will work in practice, I'd be very happy to possibly change my views. So far I've not seen anywhere anything that might convince me.
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