O/T:- Withdrawal Agreement - 'Peace in our time'

[Elite_Pie]

From Cameron to May, Corbyn to Umunna, Cable to Lucas, all have let this Country and its people down and have contributed to this state of disarray that we now find ourselves in. It is our politicians who have caused this mess from all sides of the house and tonight, as we see May's pathetic deal voted down, the door will be opened to even more shenanigans and chicanery.

I'd agree with most of that. Wherever we end up at the end of this fiasco, politicians generally have let the country down badly. The Tories are hopelessly divided with the likes of Johnson and Gove putting their future careers before the real issue. Labour have no real alternative plan and are using the situation to try and force a general election. The LibDems probably emerge with most credit because they seem to believe in remaining, which means they don't need a plan. It now seems not a case of whether May wins the vote, just how many votes she loses by. If the difference is 100 or more, it will be a catastrophic failure. The problem then is where do we go next? She then has 3 days to come up with an acceptable deal, and given that the EU hold all the aces that won't happen.

Basically, we are up Sh!t creek without a paddle.

[dam617]

Actually Sid you are quite correct.
What annoys me, is the way this country has been wrapped up in a web of ties/lies/deceit/red tape by numerous governments and MP's for various reasons.
Since 72/74 we have never once been allowed to say, this is what we want.
The arrogance of the likes of Brown over Lisbon was unbelievable and perfectly sums up how far politicians in this country have fallen.

Referendum rejected

Mr Miliband stood in for Mr Brown for the signing in the Portuguese capital.

Mr Brown has said there was no need for a referendum as the treaty was different from the constitution rejected by voters in France and the Netherlands in 2005.

The flags of the European Union fly outside Lisbon's 16th century Jeronimos Monastery.
The treaty has now been signed by all 27 members of the EU
But he told the Commons liaison committee there would be "more scope for Parliament to debate some of these issues than there has been in the past".

The UK will give up its veto in many policy areas as the EU introduces more qualified majority voting, but Mr Brown said the changes were in the country's interests.

"Some of them are minor and procedural and the other ones are in Britain's interest and if they are not we have usually got an opt-in or an opt-out to decide whether we wish to be part of it," Mr Brown told the committee.

So unravelling this lot, is going to be painful.
Either pain or just surrender and give in.
Rather like a cancer battle. I speak from experience, take the drugs and give in, or fight for your right not to be controlled.
I'll take the fight every time and the pain.

You have possibly read the article on GF about Merrill Lynch tracking recession in Germany.

Not many mentions of this recently - that £39 billion could sure help them out.

[Bohinen]

That's good for you mate but when I work full time now and can't afford to get to the end of the month.

Sounds like the status quo isn't working that well for you then. That's why people voted Leave, to change things.

[Elite_Pie]

Sounds like the status quo isn't working that well for you then. That's why people voted Leave, to change things.

True, but I think the idea was to change things for the better.

[forwardmagpie]

I'd agree with most of that. Wherever we end up at the end of this fiasco, politicians generally have let the country down badly. The Tories are hopelessly divided with the likes of Johnson and Gove putting their future careers before the real issue. Labour have no real alternative plan and are using the situation to try and force a general election. The LibDems probably emerge with most credit because they seem to believe in remaining, which means they don't need a plan. It now seems not a case of whether May wins the vote, just how many votes she loses by. If the difference is 100 or more, it will be a catastrophic failure. The problem then is where do we go next? She then has 3 days to come up with an acceptable deal, and given that the EU hold all the aces that won't happen.

Basically, we are up Sh!t creek without a paddle.

And the EU have stockpiled paddles for when the creek is no longer sh!t

[Bohinen]

True, but I think the idea was to change things for the better.

Yes, and May's deal is not going to do that, and it will be voted down. But we can't just pretend the Leave vote didn't happen.

I didn't ask for a referendum or vote for Cameron, but I was given a choice and I expect it to be honoured. Incidentally (and this is not aimed at you), everyone I know who is on the left voted Leave, so how is it a right wing idea? People just want change because what we have now isn't working. It's a bit like France where the the left (Melenchon) and the right (Le Pen) are united against the Establishment, as represented by Macron.

[Elite_Pie]

Incidentally (and this is not aimed at you), everyone I know who is on the left voted Leave, so how is it a right wing idea?

I couldn't claim for sure that it's a right wing idea, but it was definitely driven by UKIP with immigration being the main issue.

Seems more right than left to me.

[ncfcog]

Yes 202
No 432
We were here 5 weeks ago but now a vote of no confidence as well . . . more time to be wasted, beggars belief we are where we find ourselves now.

[forwardmagpie]

It will still be either no deal or remain.

Odds (although I must check with Elite) will probably favour remain.

1 - 0 to the Establishment

[Elite_Pie]

Wow, a defeat by a margin of 230 votes is spectacular and unprecedented. Think back to when we lost 0-5 to Macclesfield at home and treble it to get some context. I never expected a defeat on this scale, because when Labour can be seen to be the beneficiaries the Tory party usually unite. Not this time, they openly and happily voted against her in their droves.

Whatever this leads to next, the EU must be laughing their tits off at the pitiful state we are in as a nation.