O/T EU Leaders are UNELECTED and UNACCOUNTABLE.

[WanChaiMiller]

Firstly, the city isn’t a cartel and if Corbyn “closed it down” we would be back in the Middle Ages in economic terms.

Not seen the report by the UN? Or what measurement was used, we use 60% of average income as a definition. However, I do think it exists and one of the main causes is low wages as opposed to mass unemployment so of the practices by some employers are disgraceful.

Car wash lads get £30 a day for 10 hours...shock horror! It’s rife and there are still too many employers getting away with ducking the minimum wage which needs to be at least £10 / hour

Low productivity gm - always been low in UK by comparison to other developed economies. But the rate of growth in productivity dropped off dramatically after the recession in 2008. So you have a situation of high employment, low wages and rising inflation.

[millmoormagic]

Firstly, the city isn’t a cartel and if Corbyn “closed it down” we would be back in the Middle Ages in economic terms.

Not seen the report by the UN? Or what measurement was used, we use 60% of average income as a definition. However, I do think it exists and one of the main causes is low wages as opposed to mass unemployment so of the practices by some employers are disgraceful.

Car wash lads get £30 a day for 10 hours...shock horror! It’s rife and there are still too many employers getting away with ducking the minimum wage which needs to be at least £10 / hour

Firstly, no one ever mentioned closing the city down, don't twist words, the labour party policy is to reign it in slightly...

Seecondly, you haven't seen the UN report because you know it will reveal the truth about tory policy and what it's doing to the country, take the bag off yer head.

[harpo88]

Back to the OP...you realise that many people in real power in this country are unelected right? Be it special advisers to ministers, financiers, media owners, civil servants, regulators...some are powerful because they control or own lots of resources so can wield influence, others are in more permanent jobs that give continuity to public administration, other roles are unelected because with too many elections lots people just wouldn’t take the time to choose (eg police comissioner elections had poor turnout).

Also many of those who are voted in are unlikely to ever lose their seat.

For the EU unelected officials at least there are publicised official mandates and job roles. And for me having some policymakers unelected means that they don’t keep changing their policies every five minutes because of the elctoral cycle.

There is also the option for the public to start and support a Citizens’ Initative online. Over a million people got behind this and successfully got water supply improved across Europe.

We really need to get away from the idea that democracy is just about ticking a box every few years, and that the box ticking is the most inportant thing. Most people’s tick won’t change anything. But people doing their best to influence the political process, that brings power to the people by changing the agenda/the political weather over time and given the right conditions. The opportunities to influence more are already there but most people do nothing about it.

[flourbasher]

Just out of interest - how and in what way does Merkel dictate to us every day?

She's on UK TV news bulletins at least 5 nights a week.
The self appointed queen of Europe

[ragingpup]

Back to the OP...you realise that many people in real power in this country are unelected right? Be it special advisers to ministers, financiers, media owners, civil servants, regulators...some are powerful because they control or own lots of resources so can wield influence, others are in more permanent jobs that give continuity to public administration, other roles are unelected because with too many elections lots people just wouldn’t take the time to choose (eg police comissioner elections had poor turnout).

Also many of those who are voted in are unlikely to ever lose their seat.

For the EU unelected officials at least there are publicised official mandates and job roles. And for me having some policymakers unelected means that they don’t keep changing their policies every five minutes because of the elctoral cycle.

There is also the option for the public to start and support a Citizens’ Initative online. Over a million people got behind this and successfully got water supply improved across Europe.

We really need to get away from the idea that democracy is just about ticking a box every few years, and that the box ticking is the most inportant thing. Most people’s tick won’t change anything. But people doing their best to influence the political process, that brings power to the people by changing the agenda/the political weather over time and given the right conditions. The opportunities to influence more are already there but most people do nothing about it.

Best post in what is quite an interesting thread. A clinching aspect for me was summed up by my wife when I was talking to her about the problems we have trusting the EU to dictate UK laws. Her response: "I trust them more than I trust the ****ing Tories!"

That's my girl!

[great_fire]

Anyone who puts the UN on a pedestal and thinks they are beyond corruption wants putting in an asylum.

Another gravy train.

And they are politically motivated, these envoys they're sending to the UK to find "poverty" are Marxist college professors.

They're also pushing third world immigration to Europe.

[PerigordMiller]

Back to the OP...you realise that many people in real power in this country are unelected right? Be it special advisers to ministers, financiers, media owners, civil servants, regulators...some are powerful because they control or own lots of resources so can wield influence, others are in more permanent jobs that give continuity to public administration, other roles are unelected because with too many elections lots people just wouldn’t take the time to choose (eg police comissioner elections had poor turnout).

Also many of those who are voted in are unlikely to ever lose their seat.

For the EU unelected officials at least there are publicised official mandates and job roles. And for me having some policymakers unelected means that they don’t keep changing their policies every five minutes because of the elctoral cycle.

There is also the option for the public to start and support a Citizens’ Initative online. Over a million people got behind this and successfully got water supply improved across Europe.

We really need to get away from the idea that democracy is just about ticking a box every few years, and that the box ticking is the most inportant thing. Most people’s tick won’t change anything. But people doing their best to influence the political process, that brings power to the people by changing the agenda/the political weather over time and given the right conditions. The opportunities to influence more are already there but most people do nothing about it.

Good points Harpo.

One of the biggest issues it seemed with Brexiters was the unelected officials in Brussels. It's interesting to note that only about 35% of British people turned out last time to vote for their MEP. Will unelected civil servants in Whitehall make those people feel happier? To many of the Scots its the same thing.

Question about whether I would change my vote now - not sure - I voted remain but I have to say I feel even more now that there is too little information about what the UK being outside of the EU will look like. The first phase - the divorce settlement - has been a pig's ear, and there obviously has been no negotiations yet on the second phase - the relationship if any with the EU trading block, so who knows what that will look like.

[rolymiller]

Yep Good post Harpo. Changing things aint just about ticking boxes at election times and a lot of powerful people we have very little control over. Murdoch is a good example.

[ragingpup]

Please explain the corruption and fraud youve witnessed.

Also give some evidence the EU has not signed off its accounts (I can see its most recent account, 2017, on the EU website).

Good questions. I'd be interested to hear your evidence MillerBill?

[great_fire]

"Socialists" siding with the big international banks and corporations and the neo-liberal EU against the people, in effect siding with the bourgeoisie against the proletariat, I don't know what is going through their minds or how they can call themselves socialists really, it's quite bizarre.