Second Vote?

[Norder]

Sorry Norder, it is the UK public that have been sold a fantasy.

there's nothing new there - 59/60....but there's room in the lifeboats, if your prepared to jump.....and yes - where the tide will take us is perhaps uncertain - though with a change of navigator - we stand a decent chance - better than going down with the ship - and if you insist on staying aboard - am sure Sub has a dusty old French/German horn he can let you have - you can play the European Anthem as you go down - Good Man... !

.



F@ck The System

[Supersub6]

Norder --a horn??? I played a tuba --I had the biggest instrument in the band by far --not that I am bragging of course!! Mind you I don't blow my own trumpet -----or tuba!!

[Norder]

.

Norder --a horn??? I played a tuba --I had the biggest instrument in the band by far --not that I am bragging of course!! Mind you I don't blow my own trumpet -----or tuba!!

....thats tubad Sub - an E.UPhony...um ???

[Altobelli]

there's nothing new there - 59/60....but there's room in the lifeboats, if your prepared to jump.....and yes - where the tide will take us is perhaps uncertain - though with a change of navigator - we stand a decent chance - better than going down with the ship - and if you insist on staying aboard - am sure Sub has a dusty old French/German horn he can let you have - you can play the European Anthem as you go down - Good Man... !

.



F@ck The System

Enjoyed that vid so much I viewed it twice

[sinkov]

"Farage, Boris, Ree-Mogg etc promised us a land of milk and honey. They were very good at it and many bought the fantasy."

What have any of those three got to do with it 59 ? This dog's breakfast of a deal has been negotiated by Remainers, May, Robbins and Barnier. Brexiteers haven't been allowed within a hundred miles of it. It's the Soft Brexit you Remainers wanted isn't it ?

"We have just 112 days to go before this may happen and we are nowhere near ready - in many ways."

Why are we not ready ? We knew over two years ago the date we were due to leave, that's been the one certain thing we knew. Brexiteers wanted No Deal planning to be instigated right at the outset, but our Remain Chancellor said he wasn't putting the money up, and our Remain PM went along with it. Every attempt to plan for No Deal by Davis was rebuffed by May. We're not ready because you Remainers have made sure we're not ready.

"The EU is a strong, established trading block and it will only get more powerful."

In which case why is our trade with it falling year on year ?

" Since the referendum the pond has dropped around 20% in value - we have had to take that hit."

Ah yes, the one and only thing Project Fear Mark 1 got right. But it isn't a hit, it was acknowledged the pound was overvalued, and it's fall has made it easier for our exporters with the subsequent increase in employment. You want to get reading up on the benefits of a floating exchange rate when it falls, something those poor buggers in Southern Europe, trapped in the Eurozone with basket case economies are only too well aware of. And your figures are some way out, since the referendum the pound has fallen around 10% against both the Euro and the Dollar, not 20%.

"If a nation in the Euro zone got in trouble then the Euro wouldn't be hit as much as the pound has been."

You really need to keep up 59, there's no 'If' about it. Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Cyprus, all Eurozone countries that have got in trouble and had horrendous difficulties simply because they're trapped in the Eurozone. You talk about caring for our young people's future, so do I, that's why I voted to Leave. You want to get yourself over to those countries and ask their young people what they think of the EU and 50% youth unemployment, I don't want the young people of the UK having to suffer like they are.

[sinkov]

Breaking News, "Warnings of no-deal ports chaos are 'misleading', industry boss says."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...try-boss-says/

Thought I'd put this up, I suspect you might have trouble finding any trace of it on the BBC or in the Guardian. In fact I can guarantee you won't, just Project Fear for those two.

[The Bedlington Terrier]

I love the idea of the ability of being able to access free markets which regulate themselves by means of self interest, competition, supply and demand. Mix in a real political willingness to improve and invest in our own island's infrastructure and defence capabilities, consequently creating wealth and jobs and I'm not finding any of that in the EU operating manual. We must put our own interests first because the French and Germans certainly won't. Leave and be damned, if it's a "No Deal Brexit", then so be it!

[1959_60]

"Farage, Boris, Ree-Mogg etc promised us a land of milk and honey. They were very good at it and many bought the fantasy."

What have any of those three got to do with it 59 ? This dog's breakfast of a deal has been negotiated by Remainers, May, Robbins and Barnier. Brexiteers haven't been allowed within a hundred miles of it. It's the Soft Brexit you Remainers wanted isn't it ?

These people raised peoples hopes during the campaign of a fantasy outcome where we would get a better deal from the EU than we have now, not pay a penny to them and have countries outside the EU falling over themselves to offer us brilliant trade deals. And many people actually believed them.

"We have just 112 days to go before this may happen and we are nowhere near ready - in many ways."

Why are we not ready ? We knew over two years ago the date we were due to leave, that's been the one certain thing we knew. Brexiteers wanted No Deal planning to be instigated right at the outset, but our Remain Chancellor said he wasn't putting the money up, and our Remain PM went along with it. Every attempt to plan for No Deal by Davis was rebuffed by May. We're not ready because you Remainers have made sure we're not ready.

You must realise that it would take years to properly prepare for No Deal. But I totally agree, much more should have been done over the past two years. we are nowhere near ready for No Deal in March.

"The EU is a strong, established trading block and it will only get more powerful."

In which case why is our trade with it falling year on year ?

Since the Brexit vote, we have been one of the poorest performing economies in the EU. Before the vote we were performing well.

" Since the referendum the pond has dropped around 20% in value - we have had to take that hit."

Ah yes, the one and only thing Project Fear Mark 1 got right. But it isn't a hit, it was acknowledged the pound was overvalued, and it's fall has made it easier for our exporters with the subsequent increase in employment. You want to get reading up on the benefits of a floating exchange rate when it falls, something those poor buggers in Southern Europe, trapped in the Eurozone with basket case economies are only too well aware of. And your figures are some way out, since the referendum the pound has fallen around 10% against both the Euro and the Dollar, not 20%.

I got that wrong. It has fallen 13% against the Euro.

"If a nation in the Euro zone got in trouble then the Euro wouldn't be hit as much as the pound has been."

You really need to keep up 59, there's no 'If' about it. Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Cyprus, all Eurozone countries that have got in trouble and had horrendous difficulties simply because they're trapped in the Eurozone. You talk about caring for our young people's future, so do I, that's why I voted to Leave. You want to get yourself over to those countries and ask their young people what they think of the EU and 50% youth unemployment, I don't want the young people of the UK having to suffer like they are.

The 2008 financial crash was devastating for the UK. But for weaker economies it was worse. If these countries hadn't been in the EU then they would have been even worse hit. If Greece had stood alone then the Drachma could have disappeared up it's own arse. Talking about Greece, people are saying that it should not have been allowed in the EU - it conned it's way in. There are two economies there - the official one and the black economy (cash) which is almost as big.

[1959_60]

Breaking News, "Warnings of no-deal ports chaos are 'misleading', industry boss says."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...try-boss-says/

Thought I'd put this up, I suspect you might have trouble finding any trace of it on the BBC or in the Guardian. In fact I can guarantee you won't, just Project Fear for those two.

I sincerely hope that he is right Sinkov - he should know.

But if one day all this traffic is passing through the port unhindered and the next day they are all subject to customs checks etc then it is sure to have a major effect.

[sinkov]

"these people raised peoples hopes during the campaign of a fantasy outcome where we would get a better deal from the EU than we have now, not pay a penny to them and have countries outside the EU falling over themselves to offer us brilliant trade deals. And many people actually believed them."

Most of the Brexiteer aspirations during the referendum campaign were perfectly achievable 59. Some might have thought they were easily achievable, if so they were naïve and I certainly wasn't one of them. I did say, on another forum, just after the result that the real fight starts now, and the biggest battle won't be in Brussels, it will be in London. Which has proved to be correct.

It's accepted wisdom that Cameron and his Tory government made no plans at all for a vote to Leave. But to assume no one was making any plans is a misconception, this is a headline in the Guardian on June 6th, 17 days before the referendum was held.

"Pro-EU MPs could stage guerilla campaign to reverse Brexit decision"

So while Cameron sat complacently in No 10, the Remainers were already planning weeks beforehand what to do should the hoi-polloi be so fecking stupid as to vote the wrong way. And fair play to them, they've made a pretty good job of it so far, they've now got a second referendum, and even withdrawing our application to leave the EU, firmly on the agenda. But anyone who thinks we've arrived in this situation by accident is as naïve as anyone thinking leaving the EU would be easy, and is doing a dis-service to Remainers. We're in this situation because of serious long term planning, which started even before the referendum, by influential and powerful groups of traitorous Remainers. Why do you think that every single Brexiteer involved in the start of the negotiations has been seen off long since, do you really think that was accidental, just one of those things ?

What I still can't work out is whether May is in league with them, or is just the village idiot.