Second Vote?

[sinkov]

They don't write them like that any more, sinkov. It has to be all PC and, on no account, must you upset anybody.
Maggie, for all her faults, had a team that backed her up at that time and she had the courage of her own convictions to stick up for her country, even though her and Scargill had done all they could to ruin it a few years before!

I think if Maggie was negotiating on our behalf now Sub, M Barnier would have felt the full force of that handbag on several occasions already. Instead what we have is a weedy, timorous woman who tiptoes across the Channel with her lackey Olly Robbins, says yes, of course Michel, and then tiptoes back again. I used to think Gordon Brown was about as incompetent as it got, but this woman takes it to a whole new low level.

Or does she know something we all don't ?

[Altobelli]

She's running through a Wheat field Sinkov

[sinkov]

If only she'd just keep on running Alto, don't turn round, don't stop, just keep on running until she's a tiny speck in the distance, and then vanishes altogether.

[sinkov]

Thatcher was very influential in how the EU is currently run.

And there is no way she would have sanctioned a referendum in the first place - read the links further up for confirmation.

You are on the wrong horse here.

Baroness Thatcher, addressing the House of Lords, European Communities (Amendment) Bill, June 1993

"Perhaps I may also say this to the noble Lord, Lord Jenkins of Hillhead: will he do me the honour of reading through the speech to the end? He will see that I said that perhaps Lord Attlee was right, that there was a place for a referendum when that is the only way of putting an important single constitutional issue to the people. Otherwise, having two main parties, we vote on a general manifesto, and there is no way of putting an important constitutional issue to the people, except by a referendum. That is why we have had referenda on Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales. They were constitutional issues."

[Claret_Matelot]

The problem is that the whole thing has become a political football. As soon as we the public voted leave the politics should have been taken out of it with all parties working together to come up with an exit strategy and plans for world wide trade deals. I heard someone on TV a few days ago saying "Of course labour reject it... it is their job to challenge and go against the sitting government".
I am sure that the refurrendum was based on peoples own Brexit views irrespective of what political party they belong to.
A true sign of leadership would have been for the Prime Minister to accept the result and establish a cross party Brexit committee of say 6 people from each party. Tell them to go away, consult who they want to from finance, industry, retail, manufacturing etc and come back in 12 months with an agreed cross party Brexit proposal. As the proposal was a cross party collaboration it should go through parliament before being submitted to the EU as the UK proposal for Brexit.
Unfortunately she has come up with her plan which doesn't have her own party backing and certainly very few from across parliament. To make matters worse she has submitted it to the EU as 'The Plan' which all 27 members have accepted and stating that they will not revisit it again.
It might put some sugar on it if she could announce how many countries have agreed to set up a trade deal with the UK once we leave.

[The Bedlington Terrier]

For me it's pretty simple. We had a referendum and voted to leave.

The Ministerial Remainers have deliberately prevaricated to bring us to either accept their way or face a "No Deal Brexit". For the people? I don't think so!

[Supersub6]

In spite of all their continued bluster, there is not one politician in the House of Commons that would like to be in the Prime Minister's shoes. They will all continue to blabber on and then, when all is sorted, if it ever does get sorted, they will come out of the woodwork and all claim that it was nothing to do with them unless, of course, everything goes well in which case they will all claim the credit.

I agree with Claret_Matelot that the bull should have been firmly seized by the horns once the result of the referendum was known. A cross party committee should have been formed to look at all aspects and to give a clear plan for Brexit. The lack of this simple procedure has made the whole process much more difficult and the more in-fighting that has gone on, both within the Tory party and the blinkered opposition party and others, the more the EU negotiators must be rubbing their hands.

The sad thing is that, as usual, when the elephants fight it is the grass that gets badly trampled ---I am lucky that I am a survivor and always find it easy to bounce back through anything ---so they can do their worst!

[1959_60]

Yes Super, you will not be impacted very much at all - no matter what the outcome.

Neither will I, or most people on this board. Most of us have retired.

But do you have children or grand children? We have had the opportunity to go back packing in Europe as easily as back packing in England. We have had the opportunity to study, work or live in Europe just as easily as in England.
When we leave the EU these opportunities will be severely curtailed. Our younger people realised all the benefits and voted strongly to remain.
You argue that you will be OK because you are a survivor. I'm sorry Super, but to me that comes across as being selfish.

The economic case is clear that, whichever form of Brexit is implemented, then the country will become poorer. This includes your children and grand children.
Like I said, we are retired and will hardly feel any difference. Bully for us, eh?

I remember back in the 70's the UK economy was a complete basket case. "The sick man of Europe". Since we joined the European club we have flourished. When we had the referendum in 2016 we had the fifth strongest economy in the world. Trading freely across Europe was a major factor in this.

Economically it is a no brainer to keep close trading relationships with our closest neighbours.

I believe that it is just an idealogical decision that will in effect make us poorer and be an act of serious self harm.

[Supersub6]

59_60 ---You say that my attitude sounds selfish, however, because of my attitude which means I will survive (with apologies to Gloria Gaynor) this ensures that I am able to continue my work in helping others who do not have my attitude!
As far as my children and grandchildren are concerned, they have the same attitude and will get on with things no matter what. None of us know about the freedom of movement in the future and whether or not they will continue to have good access to other countries as we have had in recent years.

We are still in a position that nobody can give any clear indication of just what Brexit means either economically or socially --it is all still just conjecture.
I voted remain in the referendum because I could see that there was no definite plan or way of action if the vote was to leave. Sadly, I have been proved correct, however, I gain no satisfaction from this fact. It is a complete shambles and will continue to be so. I don't worry about it because, selfishly, there is absolutely nothing I can do to influence what is going to happen, therefore, I do not waste any energy worrying about what may or may not be ---I just get on with things and don't let it affect me in any way.

I will stay have to pay my taxes, I will still continue my work to help others, I will still travel, even if they won't let me into their various countries, I shall just get on with life ---no matter what.

[1959_60]

Super, I worded that very badly - I realise that you and selfishness are strangers.

But, like I say, it is not people like you and I that will be affected - it is the younger end - and they voted strongly to remain. I am very mindful that they will not be allowed the same advantages as us.

I have yet to see one positive advantage of leaving the EU - apart from ending freedom of movement, which I wholly support and this country has benefited from.