ER -Accident & Emergency latest Injury news .......

[MrsORichSenior]

Injury after injury....which is why I am a little amazed that people still want us on a serious Cup run. Regardless of playing fringe players or not! These so called fringe players look like they are going to be playing a bigger and bigger part of us attempting to stay at the top of the League, the way the depth is dwindling.

My twopence worth on it (Cup run) ............ Oz.
The process of giving up/not performing (tanking) by a professional team in order to enhance or protect its position presents many interesting ethical questions for me as a fan.

1. Giving up (tanking) basically for me means a situation where a professional team intentionally does not use its best available players in a contest.

2. I am not saying that the players who actually participate in the game(s) give less than their best efforts BUT I am saying that if Management/Coaches make a decision that they will use relatively inferior players in a game (even though better players are available) - even though that course of action is more likely to result in a loss THAT for me is NOT acceptable with my ethic of how I play sport or watch a sport.

3. The 'old chestnuts' used via comments expressed of ..........'looking to see what we have for the future' OR 'wanting to make sure that we don’t aggravate any more injuries' when it's crystal clear to me that the team in question has given up on the game and wants to position itself more favourably for another possibly more lucrative game.

4. Fundamentally for me,IMO, this raises the question as to who will win when two teams vying for a 'favourable position' play one another ?

5. Personally for me,I would not want to represent a team with players in it not wanting/expecting to win at such costs as its unethical sporting behaviour.

6. Sport aptly demonstrates that 'many' of us including owners,coaches, players and fans are prepared to leave our ethics at the door when we enter the domain of professional sports - at least in valued terms of our expectations for teams 'putting in a shift' and giving 100% genuine effort to win every game. Would we accept a Primary school or High school or a College team setting itself up to lose ?

I doubt it !
So why would we accept it at the professional levels then.Maybe it’s because of the personal 'feel good factor' or are we just being conned by visions of a better prosperous financial viability in the future.

7. I and many of you participated in sports as kids (even as adults) and we were always taught that it is essential to maximize our effort in every game........ to win.

So I find it ironic that at the professional level where it’s supposed to be clear what is exactly expected to win that we are now okay with a go out and lose mentality.

Perhaps changing the rules of the FA Cup (in our case) or in general to all professional sports so that to reduce the reward for failure would result in a more ethical approach to the spirit of competition could well be the answer if you view the rewards for 'just turning up to compete' that I posted on the FA Cup thread.

Rant over Oz - trouble was/is I've got three brothers so I always had to compete with them to show 'em I was worthy to fell-run with them,cycle cross with them,box with them and row boats with them and that meant NO quarters given ever ............ a situation that still applies today - family eh.

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

Sorry Billy, but that's nonsense. We didn't lose Ayling, Berardi etc last Saturday, it didn't help, but one game doesn't explain the length and breadth of our injuries from the start of the season.

Top level sport if far harder and more demanding on the body than it ever has been.

Players years ago could carry significant injuries - they can’t today as they can’t get away with it as the game is too fast and too demanding.

to be the best you have to be fit and strong. The stronger you get the more stress you put on your body and some of the joints can’t cope. There are lots of medical articles on topic and it’s why there are so many ACL injuries.

if you are lucky, you avoid injuries to key players - otherwise it is now part of the sports lifecycle for players. Look at the attrition rate in rugby by way of example. England have at least 8 first team quality players injured.

[Ozwhites]

My twopence worth on it (Cup run) ............ Oz.
The process of giving up/not performing (tanking) by a professional team in order to enhance or protect its position presents many interesting ethical questions for me as a fan.

1. Giving up (tanking) basically for me means a situation where a professional team intentionally does not use its best available players in a contest.

2. I am not saying that the players who actually participate in the game(s) give less than their best efforts BUT I am saying that if Management/Coaches make a decision that they will use relatively inferior players in a game (even though better players are available) - even though that course of action is more likely to result in a loss THAT for me is NOT acceptable with my ethic of how I play sport or watch a sport.

3. The 'old chestnuts' used via comments expressed of ..........'looking to see what we have for the future' OR 'wanting to make sure that we don’t aggravate any more injuries' when it's crystal clear to me that the team in question has given up on the game and wants to position itself more favourably for another possibly more lucrative game.

4. Fundamentally for me,IMO, this raises the question as to who will win when two teams vying for a 'favourable position' play one another ?

5. Personally for me,I would not want to represent a team with players in it not wanting/expecting to win at such costs as its unethical sporting behaviour.

6. Sport aptly demonstrates that 'many' of us including owners,coaches, players and fans are prepared to leave our ethics at the door when we enter the domain of professional sports - at least in valued terms of our expectations for teams 'putting in a shift' and giving 100% genuine effort to win every game. Would we accept a Primary school or High school or a College team setting itself up to lose ?

I doubt it !
So why would we accept it at the professional levels then.Maybe it’s because of the personal 'feel good factor' or are we just being conned by visions of a better prosperous financial viability in the future.

7. I and many of you participated in sports as kids (even as adults) and we were always taught that it is essential to maximize our effort in every game........ to win.

So I find it ironic that at the professional level where it’s supposed to be clear what is exactly expected to win that we are now okay with a go out and lose mentality.

Perhaps changing the rules of the FA Cup (in our case) or in general to all professional sports so that to reduce the reward for failure would result in a more ethical approach to the spirit of competition could well be the answer if you view the rewards for 'just turning up to compete' that I posted on the FA Cup thread.

Rant over Oz - trouble was/is I've got three brothers so I always had to compete with them to show 'em I was worthy to fell-run with them,cycle cross with them,box with them and row boats with them and that meant NO quarters given ever ............ a situation that still applies today - family eh.

I'm not sure how you deciphered from my response that we shouldn't try to win??? Simply pointing out...like others...that we put anything other than our top side out there. Play basically youngsters in U23 and they can try to win the game as much as they possibly can. That ain't tanking.... If they lose, no sleep loss...and no further injuries to key players in promotional bid. And if we are criticised by the ruling body for this course of action, then we'll be in good company of probably 3/4s of the participants! And no ethical issue. All sporting clubs have priorities...and reListic use of players to achieve goals.

[CLIVETHELEEDSFAN]

right now we have 18 "seniors" and 8 "youths" as backups

those seniors being BPF ayling berardi douglas dallas jansson cooper phillips klich forshaw saiz hernandez brown baker alioski harrison roofe and bamford, only BPF phillips klich and alioski have started most games this season, the rest have either played about half or barely anything, mostly down to injuries or lack of form or deemed nothing better than a bencher, to be fair to these guys theyve shown a lot of character so far and i hope they continue to do so

there can be no critisizm thrown at any of the 8 youths who have made an appearance so far, even shaughnessy who yes had a poor game but had been out injured for god knows how long, he was brought back too soon imo, under Marcelo and Carlos' guidance i still think he could become a decent backup. theyve all come in and done a damn good job, roberts had to lead the line when roofe and bamford were out, halme has made a couple of games recently next to cooper in 1 and jansson in the other, it can't be easy for a young lad to have different partners each time he plays, the versatility of shackleton has looked impressive this season, he will continue to develop, huffer got a clean sheet on his debut, clarke has looked excellent when coming on as a sub, and once he develops his stamina, he'll be immense!

these are just examples, but the 1 thing we cannot do is panic, we have to have faith in these guys, they're doing their best, fighting for each other, the crap that has been thrown at 1 or 2 of our players this season is ridiculous when you consider that we are second in the league, most matches dominating possession, our new manager has brought a new match fitness (despite the injuries) to the team, a new way of playing, we look a good team coz we are a good team, and every team in the 3rd round has a match to play, so whatever lineup we send out, lets support the lads, as we have done all season, and whatever the result, lets keep showing the boys that we care how they are, how they do, and ultimately, that they get through the season as best as possible.

I've not known an injury crisis quite like ours before, and weve had bad ones before, but we've just got to get on with it, would you rather us have had a big 30man squad with half the squad having not played a game hardly and who in many peoples eyes the backups aint good enough, or see the kids come on giving their all for the cause, i like what Marcelo decided regarding our squad, its refreshing and makes sense

[LeedsFTW]

6. Sport aptly demonstrates that 'many' of us including owners,coaches, players and fans are prepared to leave our ethics at the door when we enter the domain of professional sports - at least in valued terms of our expectations for teams 'putting in a shift' and giving 100% genuine effort to win every game. Would we accept a Primary school or High school or a College team setting itself up to lose ?

I doubt it !
So why would we accept it at the professional levels then.Maybe it’s because of the personal 'feel good factor' or are we just being conned by visions of a better prosperous financial viability in the future.

I disagree with the statement Mrs O.

I coach youth football and I can assure that the players, supporters and the club in my experience find it better for a full squad to be utilized to allow everyone an honest opportunity to play and develop. People use the term "tanking" or whatever the next buzz word is, when the reality is that at some point you are going to have injuries, there are going to be games which are more high priority than others, players may need rest to prevent further injuries, so why not allow other members that opportunity to get on the pitch and get a few minutes?

They put in the hard yards in practice, so let them have some game time - after all it is why they train so frequently, for that exact opportunity.

[MrsORichSenior]

I disagree with the statement Mrs O.

I coach youth football and I can assure that the players, supporters and the club in my experience find it better for a full squad to be utilized to allow everyone an honest opportunity to play and develop. People use the term "tanking" or whatever the next buzz word is, when the reality is that at some point you are going to have injuries, there are going to be games which are more high priority than others, players may need rest to prevent further injuries, so why not allow other members that opportunity to get on the pitch and get a few minutes?

They put in the hard yards in practice, so let them have some game time - after all it is why they train so frequently, for that exact opportunity.

............. good, I like folks who disagree with me as it fuels debate.

Snap - I've been involved with youth football back in York & Tours France (with my two sons) so know were your coming from.
Yes being fair to all kids and parents can be a juggling act as you'll know to well.
Yes chasing sponsors for strips, facilities is challenging too etc .......... constant phone calls trying to fill in last minute absences for matches was one area that kept me busy I recall and I also helped disguarded 18 year old pros to alternate careers and new careers in the non pro game via the then newly launched York Academy set up which was an eye opener to how many pro clubs treated kids who didn't make the grade.

My point was if first team squad players (like Bamford) are fit then they should be in and playing to win in front of fans travelling and paying to watch their team win which was not like what happened at Newport & Sutton of late when players were utilised,with respect, for not correct sporting values of fair competition,IMO.
If we were needing points to stay up from relegation for instance I'd expect teams to field strong players for matches involving teams around us too.

WE could go on and on but it's an interesting point on how an injury situation can sometimes bring in a raft of other situations too connected ......... but the top level pro game also has a responsibility to look after developing kids and be careful to what situations they are placed into as some play far to much football to early which results in time out of the game often with injuries sustained before their bodies are fully developed - Sam Byram & Charlie Taylor for example of late.


MOT

[Billyni]

Sorry Billy, but that's nonsense. We didn't lose Ayling, Berardi etc last Saturday, it didn't help, but one game doesn't explain the length and breadth of our injuries from the start of the season.

Sometimes I might talk a little nonsense but hardly this time, as the original post mentioned Cooper and Dallas, and they were both written off vs Sheff Utd.

[WTF11]

Sometimes I might talk a little nonsense but hardly this time, as the original post mentioned Cooper and Dallas, and they were both written off vs Sheff Utd.

And I expanded in my first post on this thread, (the reference to "ER" in the thread title was a nod in the direction of the ward-full of casualties we have), looking at what might be the cause and how we might see the club trying to address those causes. Other clubs play Blades, we play other clubs, and are hard, it doesn't explain the unprecedented number of injuries we have had this season (and to an extent what we suffered last season too).

That was my reason for saying that Blades were responsible for all those was nonesense, whereas of course they were responsible for those suffered during that particular match

[whitestomper45]

I know football is a physically challenging sport, but surely so many injuries have to spark some kind of investigation (training methods (including skills in how to avoid injury), playing tactics, nutrition, )?

Maybe they should investigate then revert to training and playing like last season

[WTF11]

Maybe they should investigate then revert to training and playing like last season

I should have known any post from me would get the usual smart ar5e response from you. You think I'm alone in asking questions about why we have suffered so many injuries, something that others have described as unprecedented, unique (and not in a good way)? I know not.

I just asked a question, wondering if others had ideas or thoughts from their experience (we have those who post here who have some expertise in injury prevention/recuperation, maybe not in football but still with experience), shame you couldn't see past your own petty prejudice and contribute something more constructive.