O/T We Are A Laughing Stock

[animallittle3]

I do realise the referendum result was Brexit. However with the benefit of all we have learned during more than two years of negotiation very few if any of us realised what the implications would be at the time of the vote. Mays half and half deal would reduce some of the damage and it is the only deal on the table pathetic though it is. Parliament can't decide therefore the the people should. The INFORMED choice is between Brexit of any kind or Remain.

PS Thank you for sorting out my recent tangled thread!

The terms required for yet another referendum are :

The ruling party needs a majority within their own ranks to propose one , unlikely .

They then need parliament to vote it through , unlikely .

You then need at least 3 months to organise the referendum and campaign , a campaign that will be massively toxic I might add .

Unless there is a significant shift in feeling and the EU accepting we postpone our leaving day on March 29 , which to be fair they will do then your referendum isn't exactly a slam dunk .

If you end up with the same result as 2016 then what ?

Best of 3 perhaps ? , no scrub that because another referendum will be the best of 3 if you include 1975 .

[KerrAvon]

The Conservatives don't need a majority within their party to 'propose' a further referendum. The government can introduce any bill that it pleases, whenever it wants to.

The lack of support for a further referendum within the Tory Party makes it unlikely that the government would choose to introduce a referendum bill, but there was a quiet revolution a couple of weeks ago, when Parliament moved passed the amendment introduced by Dominic Grieve.

Arguably, the Grieve amendment empowers Parliament to direct the government to introduce a referendum bill. There may be enough Tories who would be willing to join Labour in the betrayal of the leave voters who supported them last year to pull the stunt off.

[Exiletyke]

The Conservatives don't need a majority within their party to 'propose' a further referendum. The government can introduce any bill that it pleases, whenever it wants to.

The lack of support for a further referendum within the Tory Party makes it unlikely that the government would choose to introduce a referendum bill, but there was a quiet revolution a couple of weeks ago, when Parliament moved passed the amendment introduced by Dominic Grieve.

Arguably, the Grieve amendment empowers Parliament to direct the government to introduce a referendum bill. There may be enough Tories who would be willing to join Labour in the betrayal of the leave voters who supported them last year to pull the stunt off.

There may be enough Tories who would be willing to join Labour in the betrayal of the leave voters who supported them last year to pull the stunt off.




Just can't resist can you?

So if it's owt to do with owt Labour,It's a stunt?

Labour, betrayal can't resist can you ?

[Exiletyke]

I do realise the referendum result was Brexit. However with the benefit of all we have learned during more than two years of negotiation very few if any of us realised what the implications would be at the time of the vote. Mays half and half deal would reduce some of the damage and it is the only deal on the table pathetic though it is. Parliament can't decide therefore the the people should. The INFORMED choice is between Brexit of any kind or Remain.

PS Thank you for sorting out my recent tangled thread!

PS Thank you for sorting out my recent tangled thread![/QUOTE]


You're welcome but sorting out a tangled mind is a taller order

[KerrAvon]

There may be enough Tories who would be willing to join Labour in the betrayal of the leave voters who supported them last year to pull the stunt off.




Just can't resist can you?

So if it's owt to do with owt Labour,It's a stunt?

Labour, betrayal can't resist can you ?

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. Last year, Labour told voters "We respect the outcome of the referendum". This year they are saying "If we can't have a General Election (which they can't) then we want a second referendum". There will undoubtedly be people who want to leave but who voted Leave on the back of the manifesto promise. I'd feel pretty betrayed. What expression would you prefer? Let down? Stabbed in the back? Done up like a kipper? Shafted? Feel free if you would prefer one of them.

[Exiletyke]

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. Last year, Labour told voters "We respect the outcome of the referendum". This year they are saying "If we can't have a General Election (which they can't) then we want a second referendum". There will undoubtedly be people who want to leave but who voted Leave on the back of the manifesto promise. I'd feel pretty betrayed. What expression would you prefer? Let down? Stabbed in the back? Done up like a kipper? Shafted? Feel free if you would prefer one of them.

Nowt wrong with the word betrayed
It's the way you phrase your post
It would be quite sufficient to say
there would be enough Tories willing to betray the leave voters
but you can't resist having your usual snide but subtle dig

I invited you [post 54 on this thread]to look at the Tory manifesto of 2015 & tell me which of the promises /pledges have been either ignored or forgotten or changed or swept under the carpet but you have failed to respond

[KerrAvon]

Nowt wrong with the word betrayed
It's the way you phrase your post
It would be quite sufficient to say
there would be enough Tories willing to betray the leave voters
but you can't resist having your usual snide but subtle dig

I invited you [post 54 on this thread]to look at the Tory manifesto of 2015 & tell me which of the promises /pledges have been either ignored or forgotten or changed or swept under the carpet but you have failed to respond

The thing is though, Exile, it’s a handful of Tory MPs who might defy their party and vote for a further referendum, whereas a further referendum is now Labour’s policy. With that being the case, why on earth wouldn’t I mention that it’s the Labour Party who is betraying some of the people who relied upon its manifesto when voting last year? That’s the story here.

Is the truth a bit too inconvenient for you? Are you hoping that if nobody says it then it won’t be true? I really don’t think the electorate won’t notice, if that’s what you are hoping for.

As for the Tory manifesto, I can’t say that I’ve read it. I’m sure it’s available online if you want to work through it. I recall that they said they would offer a free vote on the repeal of the Hunting Act and the Human Rights Act, but haven’t gone through with either (because they worked out that there was no appetite in the country for one and that they would lose the other). I don’t care about one and am glad that the other was not acted upon. And the thing is that the Tory’s inaction on those issues is hardly analogous with the 180 degree turn that Labour is currently performing on Brexit - probably the biggest political decision that we will live through.

Labour is the party you support, so you need to own the betrayal.

[Exiletyke]

I have read it that's why I quoted it & if you recall it was me who invited you to read it [if you don't recall I give it below]
Now we seem to be entering the weird world of KA which I am not prepared to waste any more time on


This is post 54
Kerr take a look at the Tory manifesto for 2015 for example & tell me honestly how many of their pledges/promises have been implemented You will find lots of examples where they have not delivered & they have been in office for for nearly a decade
I do not make tis comment to defend the Labour party's manifesto but they are not in government & as such do not have the power to implement anything
I could accept some of your assertions if they weren't so politically biased although you profess to not support any party you do a pretty poor job of masking it

However what this should tell us is that we should not believe anything that any of the lying buggers tell us or can you disagree with that?

[KerrAvon]

Well if you've read it, fill your boots and let us have details of where they haven't done what they said they would. You brought the Tories into this.

Let's see if any are as massive as Labour's betrayal of leave supporting Labour voters.

Labour are the official opposition. Is it too much to ask that they stick to their manifesto when discharging that function?

[animallittle3]

This country is tearing it's self apart , it's a very sad and a depressing sight .

There doesn't appear to be any grown ups in the room and the kids are running riot .

I couldn't be more turned off politics than I am right now and that goes for both party's .

The politicians have lost their grip , the people were given a simple question and delivered a simple answer in a winner takes all vote .

The people didn't have anything to do with the referendum , the government at the time offered the question to the electorate .

The people didn't fight the campaigns on either side .

All the people were asked to do was place a X on two options , stay in the EU or leave .

Which is what they did .

The surprise of the outcome is neither here nor there .

If you don't like the possible answer to a question then why the fuq did you ask it ?

Now you deal with the result in my opinion , not try to overturn it because if you ask the electorate a question and they provide the answer then what the fuq more do you require ? .

I ain't keen on spending the majority of my working life under a Tory government but I have to lump it in the name of democracy .


Once the faith breaks down and a rigged system comes in to play then you are on dangerous ground in my opinion .

If the people provide you with the answer and you ignore it then what's the point in voting in the future , no fecker puts it into practice anyway .

Once you betray what the people voted for you risk the whole of the political system breaking down altogether .

And if this second / third referendum comes off don't think for one minute that will be the end off it .

It may well prove to be the start , the start of something many probably wouldn't envisage in this country .

Don't say you weren't warned .