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Thread: The way forward

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by out0lunch View Post
    No figures then !!! Why don't you take into account the subsidy from the FA?
    How much will these training facilities that you mention cost?
    The full costs of the academy is well over one million pounds per year and probably nearer to £1.3m with the FA and PL contributing the difference and think was John Bowler that stated the costs to the club itself was £760,000. If that is incorrect then it's time they put the record straight. I've seen this figure regularly though.

    The question then becomes why spending that sort of money on a football kickabout thingy that seems unable to produce L2 standard players after 10 or more years of so called coaching is highly relevant when the same standard of players are available everywhere with zero costs of bringing them along from kids. I suggest naming these things as 'academies' is misleading as it suggests some kind of educational and academic establishment that can measure success based on examination results. Arguably if it is then our academy will be closed down as under achieving and placed in special measures five years ago.

    The fact that the club continues with a model that most think is well past it sell by date suggests the Board are living in the past and not the present or the future. It's clear there are many other places to play and practice within a short distance and coach youngsters without the need for RH and think the lease is coming to and end soon anyway which will concentrate their minds. Gresty Road is the place to play friendly matches and coaching where they can then cope realistically on match days. Its what used to be and why if it worked back then it can work now and without all the costs and FFS get rid of all those coaches that cost the earth and why have an assistant managers anyway and then each level of the academy also have manager/coaches and assistants...

    In the old days there was one manager and a trainer with a sponge and I know for fact that Bill Nicholson who was the manager of Spurs in the sixties who won the League an FA cup was both the manager/coach and was in charge of the club itself too...

    Unfortunately there are some people that think football was introduced in the last 25 years...and academies are essential as are all the managers and assistants we have now. They are not and time for a radical rethink. Being bottom of the bottom tier of the league despite £1.25 millions being spent each season is that time, if not when?

    Can anyone suggest that having an assistant manager at our level is needed and if they were disposed of now would it change anything. ie actually improve our results? Put the money where it should go and that is towards the players budget...When the training budget exceeds the playing budget it can only end one way..
    Last edited by MikeSB; 24-12-2018 at 03:01 PM.

  2. #12
    Join Date
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    I think I put some figures in my post either that or the 700000 had mysteriously appeared on your device as letters, we have lost money in recent years because of the academy can you argue that ?

  3. #13
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    I can't argue that as like you I don't have the figures but I was asking what would you replace it with and the costs of this eg training facilities. Some would say Shavington school, have you played on that mud field but if that is the way then what will it cost?

    Perhaps we could use the George playing field, but as Mikesb would know playing local football ( I assume that as he will not divulge which team he played for) then you could only play if the groundsman let you in case you made a mess of the playing area !!

    What I am trying to get at is ok get rid of the academy and what will you replace it with and the cost. So far nobody has come up with
    the answer in cost terms of the replacement. To replace a business you need a business plan to see if it is viable

    I assume your above post is aimed at me, which I don't quite understand but give me proof that it has lost money in recent years as I can't find it.

  4. #14
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    Crewe already have a facility in Shavington bought and paid for that has artificial pitches, changing rooms and I am sure a gym could be installed along with other facilities they require; however you are right I would not have a figure for installing the required extras but I think it is safe to say it would be a one off payment that would be considerably less than what we spend at RH every year. Local play fields could be used in the better weather. If you look at the club accounts in 2013 the 2million plus profit was undoubtedly from player sales and probably from academy products, however the consistent losses since them are also undoubtedly down to academy costs that have not been covered by player sales. The club needs to sell a player every year for in excess of 500000 just to break even and I do not see any academy product in the current squad who is going to command anywhere near that, so it is safe to say that the academy will lose money again out of this current crop.

    It would be very interesting to know how much it costs to develop a player through the academy from age 8 through to 18 ? Would anybody know ? I don’t think anybody could argue that a change in direction is required, and either drastically reduce the academy to cat 4 or even disband it. I know the academy is kind of like Brexit nobody is really sure of the long term benefits of either.

    Happy Xmas to all.

  5. #15
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    Jul 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wartman View Post
    Crewe already have a facility in Shavington bought and paid for that has artificial pitches, changing rooms and I am sure a gym could be installed along with other facilities they require; however you are right I would not have a figure for installing the required extras but I think it is safe to say it would be a one off payment that would be considerably less than what we spend at RH every year. Local play fields could be used in the better weather. If you look at the club accounts in 2013 the 2million plus profit was undoubtedly from player sales and probably from academy products, however the consistent losses since them are also undoubtedly down to academy costs that have not been covered by player sales. The club needs to sell a player every year for in excess of 500000 just to break even and I do not see any academy product in the current squad who is going to command anywhere near that, so it is safe to say that the academy will lose money again out of this current crop.

    It would be very interesting to know how much it costs to develop a player through the academy from age 8 through to 18 ? Would anybody know ? I don’t think anybody could argue that a change in direction is required, and either drastically reduce the academy to cat 4 or even disband it. I know the academy is kind of like Brexit nobody is really sure of the long term benefits of either.

    Happy Xmas to all.
    I’m not sure the idea of us selling 500k a year to break even makes sense. After all , if we replace Ainley with a on older player of a similar quality we’re probably talking twice the wages. So let’s say 2k a week, across a season that’s 104k saved having a youth player. Move that out to the 7 first team starters we have and it’s a saving of 700k+ a year. And these players have the chance of progressing into better players and produce transfer fees.

    Even if the figure is half that , we’ve easily brought in 350k a year consistently.



    I don’t know why people don’t like the youth system , it’s made it possible to see some brilliant players play for Crewe and go on to England. Yes the dynamics changed but we’re still producing good players and we will produce another star again.

    At the moment it’s keeping us afloat, would we be able to attract players of a good enough quality on crowds of 3k a week and an uninterested major shareholder??

  6. #16
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    Jun 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by thnhouse View Post
    I’m not sure the idea of us selling 500k a year to break even makes sense. After all , if we replace Ainley with a on older player of a similar quality we’re probably talking twice the wages. So let’s say 2k a week, across a season that’s 104k saved having a youth player. Move that out to the 7 first team starters we have and it’s a saving of 700k+ a year. And these players have the chance of progressing into better players and produce transfer fees.

    Even if the figure is half that , we’ve easily brought in 350k a year consistently.

    I don’t know why people don’t like the youth system , it’s made it possible to see some brilliant players play for Crewe and go on to England. Yes the dynamics changed but we’re still producing good players and we will produce another star again.

    At the moment it’s keeping us afloat, would we be able to attract players of a good enough quality on crowds of 3k a week and an uninterested major shareholder??
    I played local football for Crewe Villa and LMR and Red Star Sunday League. Not as high as some clubs admittedly but I can say for sure that there was no coaching in those days from top to bottom and clubs signed players who already had the ability to play at whatever level they were. eg Frank Blunstone played for Crewe, Chelsea and England. Clubs also had amateur players on the books that were pretty good standard too. I accept that today's players are fitter than they used to be based on the fact they have all the facilities they have but arguably the standard and pleasure of watching football is less than it was.

    I very much doubt Crewe pay 2000 pounds a week to anyone. Problem is nobody has ever known what our players are on. We do know its progressive. People say players in the National league are on more and why they wouldn't sign for us I don't know, just guessing? How much is Nicky Maynard on at Bury and who is paying it. Ditto, Accrington and Rochdale and all the other clubs that have less gate money?

    Dario said way back we need to sell a player for 500,000 pounds each season just to break even and that is obviously not sustainable based on the past 4 or 5 seasons and still amazes me how many foreign players there are in the PL and so where are all these British players now? We don't even know what the RH facilities cost and so the club like to keep all this stuff to themselves. It's possible that most non league players get more than our academy players. But IF they are so good as fans suggest, then how many actually make the grade in non league compared with the hundreds that have come through any academies? Its fairly obvious that academies cannot produce many players that can compete physically with any level of football as they haven't developed the strength to do so and so if we are saying that they need over 100 games while they do, that means we can't compete at lower league levels or possibly even National League levels. Academies are for the rich clubs and not clubs our size. That does not mean we can't have good youths coming through and get to train with the first team. That was always the case though and if you were good enough then you progress on natural ability. I know the managers of the local teams I played for always thought I should play higher as I used to play midfield and scored a hatful of goals the whole time and didn't need any coach to tell me how!

    One thing IS for sure. The more managers and coaches we have on the books surely means we pay less than we could for playing staff. I think I read somewhere where we have 70-80 full time employees maintaining a team of 20 pro players....Is that a good ratio? I'm pretty sure that when the money runs out, so will the Directors..
    Last edited by MikeSB; 25-12-2018 at 05:03 PM.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    346
    Maybe with coaching Mike you could have been a league footballer?

    Just out of interest in the 70’s when you were playing did you constantly demand that the cross bar be replaced with a string and that the team should play a flying W formation??


    I’ve no idea how many coaches we have but I’d imagine that even if we have 70 then they won’t all be running the first team . There’s probably about 13 year groups, with multiple teams in some, not to mention the coaches for soccer nights for kids which will bring in money rather than lose it.

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