i hope we have all learned from the "in Hartley and in Mcann"we trust saying

[shaded]

a manager should always live or die by the team/tactics and results he gets out his players on the pitch
only rule breaker that i can recall has been sir eck.

personally think we showed way too much blind faith in hartley and mcann,both shouldv been shipped out way way before they were.an experienced board wouldnt have tolerated some of the defeats/bad losing runs and performances that the 2 above got away with.

leadership on and off the park has been in very short supply at Dens

hope this window turns out to be a very decisive one and a good one for us, as by god we are going to need it,but we also need
a strong board
a strong manager
and a strong mindset within the team
we aint got all of them at the moment but they are achievable

[BCram]

a manager should always live or die by the team/tactics and results he gets out his players on the pitch
only rule breaker that i can recall has been sir eck.

personally think we showed way too much blind faith in hartley and mcann,both shouldv been shipped out way way before they were.an experienced board wouldnt have tolerated some of the defeats/bad losing runs and performances that the 2 above got away with.

leadership on and off the park has been in very short supply at Dens

hope this window turns out to be a very decisive one and a good one for us, as by god we are going to need it,but we also need
a strong board
a strong manager
and a strong mindset within the team
we aint got all of them at the moment but they are achievable

Agree with a lot of this Shaded. I think part of the trouble is that recent manager appointments have had an element of controversy. Even PH being appointed when he was seemed to be contentious and it caused a split in the support. He got us across the line and then built a better team with Hemmings and Stewart and Bain. IMO we deluded ourselves that the manager made the team better, and it's this point that we must never forget. PH failed to recruit adequate replacements for Hemmings and Stewart and he struggled. NM comes in and gets us across the line thanks to a complete change of mind on Haber and we again scrape home. He also fails to recruit adequate replacements for Hemmings and Stewart, also fails to recognise that players are so short on confidence that they slavishly follow his mantra of playing out from the back, when it is obvious to the supporters that it's not working, fails to play Allen in his best position, falls out with Bain, leaves O'Dea out of the team and then ends up with the nightmare January window which sees Hendry Allen and Bain depart and we get Simon Murray. He belatedly returns O'Dea to the starting lineup and stops the tombola selections and we again scrape over the line. For his next season he brings in Kenny Millar and then plays him everywhere but in his best position, mucks about with Kerr as left back and returns to tippy tappy football but this time with a bunch of lower division players from non Scottish clubs. Disaster follows and we hire JM to restore some kind of order.

I think JM got it right when he came in and gave all the players a chance to show what they could do in their favoured positions. The games were against the top teams and little was expected but he did restore ODea and did get a run of results, IMO, entirely because he played players in their best positions and adopted a consistent selection policy. I don't know what happened after the Aberdeen game but that seemed to shatter the morale of the team, and instead of building on what he inherited we seem to be planning to build another team, and attempting to do it this January.

To me we don't have a strong board who know much about Scottish football. We seem to be very limited in football terms and the result is that there is little continuity of approach because all our board seems able to contribute is support for the current manager. For me this is why we struggle from year to year. There isn't anyone who actually has a vision for the team and an ability to sell that vision to the fans.

I hope that JM actually turns out to be the real deal. I think it is good for him that he is working with Jimmy Boyle and not his previous assistant Billy Dodds, and that the board support JM in his efforts to strengthen our team. Players JM trusts who are fit and ready to play are essential. My only concern is that he's given the "you are not wanted messages" to some players who were, IMO, not doing badly and in fact were almost regular team members.

We need to get behind the team, whoever they are. We have seen in graphic detail by observing what happened to our neighbours when the supporters try to instigate change of ownership, I think we should be encouraging JN and FPS to support JM and back them all by turning up to support the team. That's the only bit I'd like to add to your list Shaded

A Strong Support.

[Returnofrros]

Agree with a lot of this Shaded. I think part of the trouble is that recent manager appointments have had an element of controversy. Even PH being appointed when he was seemed to be contentious and it caused a split in the support. He got us across the line and then built a better team with Hemmings and Stewart and Bain. IMO we deluded ourselves that the manager made the team better, and it's this point that we must never forget. PH failed to recruit adequate replacements for Hemmings and Stewart and he struggled. NM comes in and gets us across the line thanks to a complete change of mind on Haber and we again scrape home. He also fails to recruit adequate replacements for Hemmings and Stewart, also fails to recognise that players are so short on confidence that they slavishly follow his mantra of playing out from the back, when it is obvious to the supporters that it's not working, fails to play Allen in his best position, falls out with Bain, leaves O'Dea out of the team and then ends up with the nightmare January window which sees Hendry Allen and Bain depart and we get Simon Murray. He belatedly returns O'Dea to the starting lineup and stops the tombola selections and we again scrape over the line. For his next season he brings in Kenny Millar and then plays him everywhere but in his best position, mucks about with Kerr as left back and returns to tippy tappy football but this time with a bunch of lower division players from non Scottish clubs. Disaster follows and we hire JM to restore some kind of order.

I think JM got it right when he came in and gave all the players a chance to show what they could do in their favoured positions. The games were against the top teams and little was expected but he did restore ODea and did get a run of results, IMO, entirely because he played players in their best positions and adopted a consistent selection policy. I don't know what happened after the Aberdeen game but that seemed to shatter the morale of the team, and instead of building on what he inherited we seem to be planning to build another team, and attempting to do it this January.

To me we don't have a strong board who know much about Scottish football. We seem to be very limited in football terms and the result is that there is little continuity of approach because all our board seems able to contribute is support for the current manager. For me this is why we struggle from year to year. There isn't anyone who actually has a vision for the team and an ability to sell that vision to the fans.

I hope that JM actually turns out to be the real deal. I think it is good for him that he is working with Jimmy Boyle and not his previous assistant Billy Dodds, and that the board support JM in his efforts to strengthen our team. Players JM trusts who are fit and ready to play are essential. My only concern is that he's given the "you are not wanted messages" to some players who were, IMO, not doing badly and in fact were almost regular team members.

We need to get behind the team, whoever they are. We have seen in graphic detail by observing what happened to our neighbours when the supporters try to instigate change of ownership, I think we should be encouraging JN and FPS to support JM and back them all by turning up to support the team. That's the only bit I'd like to add to your list Shaded

A Strong Support.

Maybe I shudnt comment on this thread as I've not been going but we have got exactly the support the club deserves, passionless, quiet, apathetic and prepared to put up with any old crap.

They have driven the passion from some of our most passionate fans and that's criminal.

[noahrab]

a manager should always live or die by the team/tactics and results he gets out his players on the pitch
only rule breaker that i can recall has been sir eck.

personally think we showed way too much blind faith in hartley and mcann,both shouldv been shipped out way way before they were.an experienced board wouldnt have tolerated some of the defeats/bad losing runs and performances that the 2 above got away with.

leadership on and off the park has been in very short supply at Dens

hope this window turns out to be a very decisive one and a good one for us, as by god we are going to need it,but we also need
a strong board
a strong manager
and a strong mindset within the team
we aint got all of them at the moment but they are achievable

We suffered when Stewart and Hemings went. PH wouldnt have done any worse than NM did.

[BCram]

[QUOTE=Returnofrros;39106317]Maybe I shudnt comment on this thread as I've not been going but we have got exactly the support the club deserves, passionless, quiet, apathetic and prepared to put up with any old crap.


They have driven the passion from some of our most passionate fans and that's criminal.[/QUOTE

Rross, it's a view that is shared by others so it must help to have it expressed. As you can see my worry is also that we need a strong support. I'm not interested in apportioning blame. I'm more interested in trying to get the board to see that despite throwing big sums of money at the club they aren't getting very far with this approach. It's a worry.

[BCram]

We suffered when Stewart and Hemings went. PH wouldnt have done any worse than NM did.

When NM came in he did get the results that saved us. I thought that the second goal tha Hamilton scored just killed PH. He said that he didn't know what to do. I can't remember the exact words etc but everyone picked up on it and I think that it would have been unlikely that PH would have got those 2 wins.

[Returnofrros]

[QUOTE=BCram;39106416]

Maybe I shudnt comment on this thread as I've not been going but we have got exactly the support the club deserves, passionless, quiet, apathetic and prepared to put up with any old crap.


They have driven the passion from some of our most passionate fans and that's criminal.[/QUOTE

Rross, it's a view that is shared by others so it must help to have it expressed. As you can see my worry is also that we need a strong support. I'm not interested in apportioning blame. I'm more interested in trying to get the board to see that despite throwing big sums of money at the club they aren't getting very far with this approach. It's a worry.

More than a worry with me now. I was worried 2/3 year back when it started. It's a prediction that's come true.

I think the horse has bolted with regards to our support that won't magically pick up with a mythical new stadium.

They constantly ignored the concerns of a minority but I think the minority now almost ignores the club.

Was at a wee doo last night, of those present there used to be 10 regulars at Dens, there are now two regulars and 2 go to the odd game.....all these guys all went to see DFC and were regulars when we were truly **** as well.

[BCram]

[QUOTE=Returnofrros;39106441]

More than a worry with me now. I was worried 2/3 year back when it started. It's a prediction that's come true.

I think the horse has bolted with regards to our support that won't magically pick up with a mythical new stadium.

They constantly ignored the concerns of a minority but I think the minority now almost ignores the club.

Was at a wee doo last night, of those present there used to be 10 regulars at Dens, there are now two regulars and 2 go to the odd game.....all these guys all went to see DFC and were regulars when we were truly **** as well.

Things will pick up if things go right on the pitch, IMO. Think losing so regularly at home is the main problem

[Returnofrros]

[QUOTE=BCram;39106641]

Things will pick up if things go right on the pitch, IMO. Think losing so regularly at home is the main problem

Maybe for some b cram but not for me, I stopped going because of the total disregard they have for the support.

Sick to the back teeth of banging on about the same things and getting nowhere as the club withers on the vine.....it's tragic how inept the yanks and local directors have been with communication with the fans, how appalling our rented stadium is, how pish the match day morgue like expirience is and how they never ever ever ever answer concerns from the simplest enquiry to the slightly more complicated.

Fans are falling out of love with the club on an industrial scale and a wee home win over st mirren, Hamilton or Motherwell ain't gonna sort it.

You treat your custom like **** they stop giving their custom.

Funda****ingmental.

[eric_sinclair]

If they were to address a few small issues and got better on the pitch the support would be there.Still decent enough numbers considering.