Theresa in a mess

[Altobelli]

Even though I can't stand Cameron (who can?) he was unequivocal when he said to leave the EU meant the end of the Customs Union, end of the ECJ, end of access to the single market and end of free movement between EU citizens. What's the problem? Keep our 39 billion quid and tell Brussels to shove their rebate where the sun don't shine.
I'm stuck in-between democracy and idiocy. If we voted to LEAVE surely we must LEAVE?

Trouble is you have at least 67 Tories who are remainers, they don't care what the British public want, they will fight tooth and nail to remain in the EU, May's deal is not a leave deal in any shape or form, because she is quietly a remainer, her deal proves it, if that is democracy you can shove it, leave means leave, no deals, nothing, just show some bollox and leave and get the WTO deals worked on as soon as possible, you will soon see the We will not negotiate anything new EU do an about turn and plead with us to do a more encouraging deal, I'd then snub them and carry on with WTO deals and then pick and choose with the EU for the best pickings, We are in a strong position if only we'd stand up for ourselves and stop licking the EU's arse

[sinkov]

Liam Fox's response to this was very interesting. He blamed the other nations for no deals being done as yet. So...people are blaming the EU for not negotiating in good faith and these other 40 countries for not negotiating seriously.
I see a pattern here.

And I am in the dark as much as you on why we couldn't start chatting about a trade deal from day one Sinkov. Perhaps we should ask our original negotiating team which were,

Theresa May
Oliver Robbins, Europe advisor to the Prime Minister
David Davis (until 9 July 2018), Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union.
Sir Tim Barrow, UK Permanent Representative to the EU
Plus our Foreign Secretary Boris and our International Trade Secretary Liam Fox.

These people agreed to the rules of the game with the EU and, like you, I can't understand how they agreed to it.

Technically, I don't think any EU member state can negotiate it's own deal with the EU and so we actually have to leave before these discussions take place.
But we didn't seem to try very hard to circumvent this matter - perhaps our negotiators agreed with it?

It's one of those things that the Leave side said we could do during the referendum campaign 59, negotiate a trade deal alongside the withdrawal,agreement. It was known, and accepted, that the EU couldn't sign a trade deal with us until we were out, but there was no reason that trade deal could not have been negotiated, ready to be signed up to on the day after we left. The EU said it was their perogative to set the timetable and there would be no negotiating a trade deal until after we had left, and until we agreed to their timetable their would be no progress on anything. At that point we could/should have dug our heels in and said OK, no trade talks, no progress, no £39 billion, we'll prepare to leave on WTO terms, let us know when you have an alternative. But instead the leader of our negotiating team Mrs May, a Remainer, decided we'd accede to their demands and put the trade talks on the back burner. And so, here we are, but don't ask me why we walked into this well signed elephant trap, was it sheer incompetence or a deliberate Remainer plot, you tell me.

[sinkov]

Sinkov's Selective Memory Syndrome (SMS) strikes again! In response to Mad Boris I actually remember saying 80 million Turks won't want to come to the UK even with their EU passports. Boris said it, he knows he said it, this bloody SMS has gone viral.

No SMS at all BT, just the usual Remainer hysteria. I'm simply pointing out that most people don't actually take a great deal of notice of what politicians say, and that includes Boris. If he and the Leave campaign pointed out the fact that there was a possibility that Turkey could join the EU, which would give 80 million Turks the right to live and work in the EU, then he was no more than telling the truth. I can only say that this aspect of the campaign went right over my head, it never impinged on my thinking at all. Why would it, we all know what free movement in the EU means, you're either for it or against it, and one more country joining in is hardly going to sway long formed opinions one way or the other.

During the referendum campaign I was posting on the Longside, there was an extremely long running thread, it started long before the referendum and must have comprised hundreds and hundreds of posts on the subject. I've referred back to it occasionally, you too can refer back to it if you like, it's still there, and one topic I can guarantee you will not find anywhere amongst those hundreds of posts is Turkey. It was never mentioned, it was not an issue, most of the posters were Leavers, in fact I think there were only two beleagured Remainers posting on the thread, but no one mentioned Turkey, ever. No one gave a FF about Turkey, there were many and varied reasons given for voting to Leave, Turkey wasn't one of them. What we have here is just another lefty attempt to re-write history, it's what the left do.

[The Bedlington Terrier]

You remind me very much of Christmas sinkov. The Turks, Boris, the EU and the turkeys don't really want to talk about it.

[sinkov]

You remind me very much of Christmas sinkov. The Turks, Boris, the EU and the turkeys don't really want to talk about it.

Always prepared to be proved wrong BT, although it is as rare an event as a Turkey voting for Christmas, I went back to check the Longside thread I was referring to. It's still running, it now consists of 1,142 posts, I couldn't remember Turkey being mentioned at all but I wasn't going to trawl through that lot just to prove it, interesting as it might have been, so I took the easy way out and put a search in for the word 'Turkey'.

Guess what, 1,142 posts on Brexit over just one month short of three years and how many mentions of Turkey ? None, zero, zilch, feck all, like I said it just wasn't an issue, Boris might have mentioned it, other politicians might have, they talked about everything under the sun and then some more, but out in the real world, where real people existed and discussed Brexit, no one gave a FF about Turkey, it wasn't mentioned at all.

Any Remainers now claiming this was a central issue, and there seem to be quite a few, are either deranged by Brexit, quite likely, most are, or are indulging in their passion for FAKE NEWS.

[sinkov]

Google it, lies, lies and more lies https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a7835891.html

Wakey wakey BT, if you want to prove that Turkey was an issue during the referendum campaign, it might help if you put something up that occurred DURING the campaign, that piece with Vince spouting his usual drivel is dated July 2017, he's just re-writing history, the campaign ended 13 months before.

[1959_60]

Plenty more if you wish?

You may not have been swayed but plenty were.

And then you complain about "Project Fear".....

[1959_60]

[1959_60]

[The Bedlington Terrier]

Like I said 1959_60, SMS has gone viral.