Spiess

[McCullochisGod]

Not sure on that, if they were deemed ready for the first team they would surely have been used to save us money signing the journeymen you speak of. There are two possibilities here - the coaching at Notts County is so bad that it has ruined the careers of many good players, or the players themselves are just not good enough. I'm still waiting for that list of released players that have come back to bite us on the arse. Until I get one it doesn't seem logical to blame the coaching.

You just can't grasp it Elite can you?

[Lullapie]

Were Nantwich playing the Manchester United first team? How bad were their defence? It was like Notts were playing in green With a defence like that Speiss would get plenty of practice each game.

[McCullochisGod]

Were Nantwich playing the Manchester United first team? How bad were their defence? It was like Notts were playing in green With a defence like that Speiss would get plenty of practice each game.

And your point is?

[Elite_Pie]

You just can't grasp it Elite can you?

What, that Fabian Spiess is really a top goalkeeper but was ruined by poor coaching at Notts?

You are correct, I just can't grasp it.

[County58]

Spiess is not the only example though is he, of an up and coming player who didn't get the nurturing/coaching/development in order to make the grade. There must have been some raw talent there to get to the level he did. After that you need the talent to continue to develop whilst support comes from the club. Most posters on here can come up with a dozen names in 5 minutes where the player has reached the stage of knocking on the door only to see us sign some complete has-been whose career is on the wain. We are still doing it now, stifling development and opportunities. When is Osbourne going to get an opportunity for example? He probably won't. His path will be blocked by playing Hewitt in his position until we can sign someone whose end of career move is being lined up. The example of Pilkington playing while Spiess warmed the bench is a valid one.

good shout ..and that is exactly the point too much talent has come through the county doors and been allowed to slip away due to poor coaching/management. I am gladd woodsetts pie someone gets it

[County58]

Were Nantwich playing the Manchester United first team? How bad were their defence? It was like Notts were playing in green With a defence like that Speiss would get plenty of practice each game.

Crewe as it happens so yes 3 leagues above but still won 2 1

[Elite_Pie]

good shout ..and that is exactly the point too much talent has come through the county doors and been allowed to slip away due to poor coaching/management.

So you keep saying, but I'm still waiting for a list of these really talented players we've let slip away.

Start replacing bull sh!t with a list of names and we can all make a judgement.

[Woodsetts_Pie]

Ok. here goes...

Joe Searson, Fabian Speiss, Curtis Thompson, Alex Howes, Montel Gibson, Colby Bishop, Romello Nangle, Tyrell Waite, Greg Tempest, Malachai Lavelle-Moore, to name a few ... WERE NOT world beaters, instant match winners, or the immediate solution to problems we had at the time. The point I am making is that their development came so far, and they hit the glass ceiling when any further development or chance of a future they may have had was blocked by the likes of ....
Will Hayhurst, Gil Swerts, Mark Fotheringham, Ben Burgess, Fabian Brandy and many more journeymen footballers.

For the benefit of others reading this, I do not intend to follow the usual pattern and become embroiled in a monster thread where Elite argues the toss for pages on end. I've said my bit, thats it from me on this one.

[TheProphet]

Ok. here goes...

Joe Searson, Fabian Speiss, Curtis Thompson, Alex Howes, Montel Gibson, Colby Bishop, Romello Nangle, Tyrell Waite, Greg Tempest, Malachai Lavelle-Moore, to name a few ... WERE NOT world beaters, instant match winners, or the immediate solution to problems we had at the time. The point I am making is that their development came so far, and they hit the glass ceiling when any further development or chance of a future they may have had was blocked by the likes of ....
Will Hayhurst, Gil Swerts, Mark Fotheringham, Ben Burgess, Fabian Brandy and many more journeymen footballers.

For the benefit of others reading this, I do not intend to follow the usual pattern and become embroiled in a monster thread where Elite argues the toss for pages on end. I've said my bit, thats it from me on this one.

I appreciate you probably wont reply Woodsetts, but your post is based on the assumption that those players hit a glass ceiling and therefore weren't allowed to develop any further, you seem to be discounting the possibility that they just weren't good enough.

If your theory were true, then why were there not high level non-league teams queuing up to sign them, give them the first team exposure they needed to develop to either improve their team or sell on as a valuable asset?

[Elite_Pie]

Ok. here goes...

Joe Searson, Fabian Speiss, Curtis Thompson, Alex Howes, Montel Gibson, Colby Bishop, Romello Nangle, Tyrell Waite, Greg Tempest, Malachai Lavelle-Moore, to name a few ... WERE NOT world beaters, instant match winners, or the immediate solution to problems we had at the time. The point I am making is that their development came so far, and they hit the glass ceiling when any further development or chance of a future they may have had was blocked by the likes of ....
Will Hayhurst, Gil Swerts, Mark Fotheringham, Ben Burgess, Fabian Brandy and many more journeymen footballers.

For the benefit of others reading this, I do not intend to follow the usual pattern and become embroiled in a monster thread where Elite argues the toss for pages on end. I've said my bit, thats it from me on this one.

I prefer the term "discussing" to "arguing the toss", but thank you for at least providing some names. I don't believe Thompson should be on the list because he played 80 odd games for the first team, so he was given every chance but it does look a mistake to release him. Also Howes is still with us so it's too early to decide on him. As for the other eight, the question is did they only get so far and then stall because they weren't given the opportunity, or was it simply because they just weren't good enough to make the step up? If you look at the level they are performing at now it very strongly suggests the latter. If we were releasing youngsters who went on to make the grade at other clubs then I would agree with you, but nearly all of them end up in non-league. To me that suggests we're just not finding the talent rather than ruining careers through poor coaching or lack of opportunities.