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Thread: O/T Labour

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by i961pie View Post
    Thanks to Millibands £3 only membership fee to anyone he has also gathered many socialist workers party members that Kinnock spent years kicking out, which made Labour electable again.
    Remind me when Kinnock led Labour to victory. The bloke was a tit.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elite_Pie View Post
    Yes, really. You can bang on all you like about representing the wishes of constituents, but the only way to properly and fairly represent the wishes of a 52/48 split is to leave the EU with the softest of soft Brexits. Is that what you would really like to happen?
    You either have Brexit or you don't. The softest of soft Brexits is not Brexit. It's like having a vote over whether you want soup or ice cream, then mixing the two together if the vote is close.

    And I say that as someone who wasn't bothered either way and never gave it much thought until someone (Dave) asked me. I said Leave and he ran away.
    Last edited by Bohinen; 17-01-2019 at 08:40 PM.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by drillerpie View Post
    I think you're wrong about that, didn't the members vote at the conference to have a second referendum? And he's the one who wanted members to decide the direction of the party.
    Labour delegates have approved a motion that would keep all options - including a fresh referendum - on the table if MPs are deadlocked over Brexit.

    Voting to keep it as an option is not voting for it. So I'm not wrong. No need to apologise, I'm used to it.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45631792

    Sorry to post so much but as one of the very small number of posters who actually support Labour, someone has to do it on a thread entitled 'Labour'.

    Btw, it must get confusing for some of you right wingers who keep telling us that Corbyn is a commie, but he is actually your only hope of implementing Brexit. Once he's gone,you will have a Remoaner like Yvette Cooper in charge.
    Last edited by Bohinen; 17-01-2019 at 08:38 PM.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bohinen View Post
    You either have Brexit or you don't. The softest of soft Brexits is not Brexit. It's like having a vote over whether you want soup or ice cream, then mixing the two together if the vote is close.
    It seems parliament won't allow no deal, so a soft Brexit is a likely option even though it will satisfy nobody.

    Minestrone and rasberry ripple anyone?

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elite_Pie View Post
    It seems parliament won't allow no deal, so a soft Brexit is a likely option even though it will satisfy nobody.

    Minestrone and rasberry ripple anyone?
    You have a point there. This is not going to end well.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by drillerpie View Post
    Is a left wing Labour party electable though? The only time Labour has been really electable ( ie actually got elected ) in the past 40 years is by moving to the middle ground.
    The Labour Party shouldn't be a "middle ground" party. It's supposed to be a S/socialist Party representing the Left of British politics.

    Likewise, the Conservative Party's job is to represent the Right of British politics.

    This is what gives electorates a choice. And if they genuinely do want a "middle ground" party then that's the job of A N Other party, be that Liberal Democrat or whatever.

    The idea that the leading parties of the Right and Left in Britain should move towards the middle ground is poison for democracy, opening the door for career politicians who simply pretend to represent the views of whichever party badge they think will give them the best chance of election in a particular area. And the more of those types of politician infest a party, then the more its core ideology and purpose is weakened, opening the door for unelected bureaucrats and the media to influence and dictate policy.

    At various different stages of my lifetime, the media and other 'commentators' have had it that the Labour Party or the Conservative Party were so unfashionable as to never be electable again, and the follow-on argument is invariably that they should look to appeal more to the centre ground. This is, in effect, the deep state protecting itself and telling people they should choose between different cheeks of the same arse.

    In reality, fashions change and public satisfaction or anger changes, and the best democratic interests of the ordinary person in the street are served by having a proper choice and clear blue water between at least two parties, if not more.
    Last edited by jackal2; 17-01-2019 at 09:00 PM.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackal2 View Post
    telling people they should choose between different cheeks of the same arse.
    A frighteningly accurate summary of politics today!

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackal2 View Post
    The Labour Party shouldn't be a "middle ground" party. It's supposed to be a S/socialist Party representing the Left of British politics.

    Likewise, the Conservative Party's job is to represent the Right of British politics.

    This is what gives electorates a choice. And if they genuinely do want a "middle ground" party then that's the job of A N Other party, be that Liberal Democrat or whatever.

    The idea that the leading parties of the Right and Left in Britain should move towards the middle ground is poison for democracy, opening the door for career politicians who simply pretend to represent the views of whichever party badge they think will give them the best chance of election in a particular area. And the more of those types of politician infest a party, then the more its core ideology and purpose is weakened, opening the door for unelected bureaucrats and the media to influence and dictate policy.

    At various different stages of my lifetime, the media and others have had it that the Labour Party or the Conservative Party were so unfashionable as to never be electable again, and the follow-on argument is invariably that they should look to appeal more to the centre ground. This is, in effect, the deep state protecting itself and telling people they should choose between different cheeks of the same arse.

    In reality, fashions change and public satisfaction or anger changes, and the best democratic interests of the ordinary person in the street are served by having a proper choice and clear blue water between at least two parties, if not more.
    I have to agree with that. I have more respect for proper right wing Tories than wishy washy LibDem types. And all this calling Corbyn a commie is just pathetic. Grow up people. We live in a democracy.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bohinen View Post
    Remind me when Kinnock led Labour to victory. The bloke was a tit.
    I didn't say Kinnock led Labour to victory, but kicking out the socialist worker party members gave his successor (Blair) a real chance of victory. Which proved right.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bohinen View Post
    Labour delegates have approved a motion that would keep all options - including a fresh referendum - on the table if MPs are deadlocked over Brexit.

    Voting to keep it as an option is not voting for it. So I'm not wrong. No need to apologise, I'm used to it.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45631792
    Apologies (even if you don't want them) I thought they had voted explicitly for a second referendum, instead they have voted to keep it as an option if they can't force a general election (which they can't), and the delegates voted down an identical motion which excluded there being a remain option on the paper, so, you know, it is kind of what they want.

    The shadow Chancellor says remain won't be on the referendum paper, the shadow Brexit Secretary says it will, and the leader of the opposition is keeping quiet about it. As I said they know they're going to have to piss off a large part of their voters either way so are dodging the issue.

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