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Thread: O/T Labour

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by i961pie View Post
    And we all know how reliable they are
    Seriously though a new vote would be won by remainers imo.
    First I think a lot of people like myself who voted leave would boycott a second vote, the referendum was a one off once in a lifetime vote (or so we were told).
    Secondly some will be scared by the remainers project fear mark 11, although I think some remainers who believe in democracy and are sick of the way the EU are acting would change their mind.
    And third if it was true that the young voted remain then there will be many 16/17 year olds who weren't eligible to vote in 2016 will now have their say. Where as many older voters will have died or will be to Ill to vote now.
    We are agreed.

    May prefers to remain, and so does Corbyn. Neither can outright declare that the government ought to unilaterally go against the results of the first referendum. Nor does either want to be the one calling for a second referendum. They each want the other to do it and claim that they were given no choice. They're both stuck between a rock and a hard place.

    What is bigger political suicide: calling for the cancelling of brexit to be put to a vote of parliament, or calling for there to be a second referendum?

    It seems to me that the first will get the same inevitable result in a much more expedient manner. The pair of them ought to mutually agree to simply put it before parliament and put the whip their members (or no whip... it'll go the same way either way). If idiots like Tricky have a meltdown then they can spend taxpayer money on a second referendum if 'democracy' means that much to them.
    Last edited by andy6025; 24-01-2019 at 07:54 AM.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by andy6025 View Post
    We are agreed.

    May prefers to remain, and so does Corbyn. Neither can outright declare that the government ought to unilaterally go against the results of the first referendum. Nor does either want to be the one calling for a second referendum. They each want the other to do it and claim that they were given no choice. They're both stuck between a rock and a hard place.

    What is bigger political suicide: calling for the cancelling of brexit to be put to a vote of parliament, or calling for there to be a second referendum?

    It seems to me that the first will get the same inevitable result in a much more expedient manner. The pair of them ought to mutually agree to simply put it before parliament and put the whip their members (or no whip... it'll go the same way either way). If idiots like Tricky have a meltdown then they can spend taxpayer money on a second referendum if 'democracy' means that much to them.
    Thanks for the vote of confidence you socialist moron. Get back to brain washing your students in the joys of anti establishment.
    A second referendum has been the EU's goal from day one and vote 3&4 if necessary.
    Ireland/Holland /Denmark seen it all before.


    BTW, lovely to see Corbyns shining light of socialism falling apart at the seams.

    A warning to everyone.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by andy6025 View Post
    or

    https://petition.parliament.uk/

    Leave the EU without a deal in March 2019 - 344,073

    Grant a People's Vote if Parliament rejects the EU Withdrawal Agreement - 133,987

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by andy6025 View Post
    We are agreed.

    May prefers to remain, and so does Corbyn. Neither can outright declare that the government ought to unilaterally go against the results of the first referendum. Nor does either want to be the one calling for a second referendum. They each want the other to do it and claim that they were given no choice. They're both stuck between a rock and a hard place.

    What is bigger political suicide: calling for the cancelling of brexit to be put to a vote of parliament, or calling for there to be a second referendum?

    It seems to me that the first will get the same inevitable result in a much more expedient manner. The pair of them ought to mutually agree to simply put it before parliament and put the whip their members (or no whip... it'll go the same way either way). If idiots like Tricky have a meltdown then they can spend taxpayer money on a second referendum if 'democracy' means that much to them.
    I don't buy into this conspiracy theory that all along everything has been aimed at staying in. I know that May wanted to remain, but I believe she is committed to leaving, but not at any cost. Some leavers are taking the forecasts of what could happen if we leave with no deal and calling them 'Project Fear 2'. I don't believe there's a great conspiracy either in those making the forecasts. Many of them are experts who have done substantial research. There is a great amount of concern in many areas, yet those desperate for a 'hard' Brexit no deal just ignore it. And then if it all goes very wrong - who will get the blame? The remainers because it was their fault that no deal was done!

    Where do I stand? I voted remain but acknowledge the vote and agree that we need to leave on 29th March. But, we need to leave on terms which will preserve the things TM has said she has done in her deal, so I would back it. However, if possible, the Irish border needs to be sorted.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by magpie_mania View Post
    I don't buy into this conspiracy theory that all along everything has been aimed at staying in. I know that May wanted to remain, but I believe she is committed to leaving, but not at any cost. Some leavers are taking the forecasts of what could happen if we leave with no deal and calling them 'Project Fear 2'. I don't believe there's a great conspiracy either in those making the forecasts. Many of them are experts who have done substantial research. There is a great amount of concern in many areas, yet those desperate for a 'hard' Brexit no deal just ignore it. And then if it all goes very wrong - who will get the blame? The remainers because it was their fault that no deal was done!

    Where do I stand? I voted remain but acknowledge the vote and agree that we need to leave on 29th March. But, we need to leave on terms which will preserve the things TM has said she has done in her deal, so I would back it. However, if possible, the Irish border needs to be sorted.
    I don't think there's any conspiracy either.

    But I also don't think that either Corbyn or May is going to get a deal that is acceptable to parliament... and both of them AND the public would rather cancel Brexit than have a no-deal Brexit.

    So that leaves two choices - cancel Brexit via parliamentary vote or put it to another referendum. Either way it has to be done, but neither wants to be seen as initiating it. So we'll play chicken for a while. As I said before, the former is quicker and cheaper... but it depends on how much they want to try and placate people like Tricky... who can't really be placated anyways. Personally I'd waste as little time/money on them as possible, but that's just me.
    Last edited by andy6025; 24-01-2019 at 08:41 AM.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trickytreesreds View Post
    Thanks for the vote of confidence you socialist moron. Get back to brain washing your students in the joys of anti establishment.
    A second referendum has been the EU's goal from day one and vote 3&4 if necessary.
    Ireland/Holland /Denmark seen it all before.


    BTW, lovely to see Corbyns shining light of socialism falling apart at the seams.

    A warning to everyone.
    I wasn't talking to you.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by andy6025 View Post
    I don't think there's any conspiracy either.

    But I also don't think that either Corbyn or May is going to get a deal that is acceptable to parliament... and both of them AND the public would rather cancel Brexit than have a no-deal Brexit.

    So that leaves two choices - cancel Brexit via parliamentary vote or put it to another referendum. Either way it has to be done, but neither wants to be seen as initiating it. So we'll play chicken for a while. As I said before, the former is quicker and cheaper... but it depends on how much they want to try and placate people like Tricky... who can't really be placated anyways.
    Sorry Andy I don't think cancelling brexit is on many leavers agenda. I seriously hope a real deal to suit both parties is still attainable but I am not holding my breath. I don't think many of the 17+ million who voted leave are just going to shrug their shoulders and accept it.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by andy6025 View Post
    I don't think there's any conspiracy either.

    But I also don't think that either Corbyn or May is going to get a deal that is acceptable to parliament... and both of them AND the public would rather cancel Brexit than have a no-deal Brexit.

    So that leaves two choices - cancel Brexit via parliamentary vote or put it to another referendum. Either way it has to be done, but neither wants to be seen as initiating it. So we'll play chicken for a while. As I said before, the former is quicker and cheaper... but it depends on how much they want to try and placate people like Tricky... who can't really be placated anyways. Personally I'd waste as little time/money on them as possible, but that's just me.
    True - Why waste time and money carrying out the will of the people.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by i961pie View Post
    Sorry Andy I don't think cancelling brexit is on many leavers agenda. I seriously hope a real deal to suit both parties is still attainable but I am not holding my breath. I don't think many of the 17+ million who voted leave are just going to shrug their shoulders and accept it.
    The leavers' agenda? Are there enough of them in parliament to insist on having their way? Are there enough of them in the country to win the vote if it's put to a second referendum? They have neither the numbers nor the ball at the moment.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by andy6025 View Post
    The leavers' agenda? Are there enough of them in parliament to insist on having their way? Are there enough of them in the country to win the vote if it's put to a second referendum? They have neither the numbers nor the ball at the moment.
    No I don't think there is enough politicians or voters, but how the leave voters respond to it is any ones guess. Especially regarding any demonstrations or future elections.
    Let's hope there isn't a lurch to the far right which is happening in parts of Europe.

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