o/t democracy is dead

[Shark27]

In fact, it quite often gets it wrong. On one infamous occasion Timothy Evans was hanged largely on the evidence of the actual murderer, Reg Christie.

Didn't realise DNA testing was around then. 1950s wasn't it?

[Pattylallacks2]

Didn't realise DNA testing was around then. 1950s wasn't it?

I was responding to the posting about the criminal justice system not always getting it right Sharky. As you say DNA was not known at the time of the Evans trial.

[WanChaiMiller]

NB. As for democracy is dead, should there be a pass for a second vote we might as well rip up every law in the land. leave means leave and nothing else.

Of course leave means leave - but under what terms and conditions?

Should the terms be framed and judged by the ideological beliefs of Brexiteers or for the benefit of the whole country? Im part of the 16m that voted remain. Are you suggesting I have no say in the future of the new Britain?

For example, no deal to trade under WTO regs will cost UK companies that import from the EU multi £billions and surely close many down. Should we ignore these concerns and drive Brexit at any cost to suit brexiteers ideological belief?

[HerbieCobbler]

The same evidence is used for sentencing, therefore we have innocent people in the slammer. Does that mean let everyone off in case we make a mistake

Can't argue with that.

[KerrAvon]

I can. Sally Clark was eventually cleared on appeal and released (albeit terribly damaged by her ordeal). To state the obvious, that couldn't have happened if she had been hung.

[great_fire]

Yes but there are probably many more cases of murderers being released and committing murders again.

[crashbang]

Yes but there are probably many more cases of murderers being released and committing murders again.

Err what happened to the op.

[John2]

Pure demographic changes mean that if not a single person changed their vote and different age groups voted exactly as they did at the referendum, remain would now win.

There is no mandate for a hard Brexit, or arguably even now soft Brexit.

If we have a hard Brexit without the people having a say democracy is dead I agree.

The problem with our democracy at the moment is that it has been tasked with delivering the undeliverable... there is no consensus on that Brexit should look like, and no way of reflecting the vastly conflicting views of the people.

People who have an inadequate understanding of politics may feel betrayed by the fact our politicians have been unable to agree on Brexit, but to be fair they represent a diverse group of constituencies who would each feel betrayed if their interests were not represented.

The inevitable consequence was constitutional crisis. This isn't some elitist conspiracy or plot to get out of Brexit, it's just what happens when a government has no way to reach agreement. It's hard to see any way at all out of it beyond going back to the people, which ironically is the most democratic thing you can do in the event of such a consensus failure and constitutional crisis.

[Brin]

Pure demographic changes mean that if not a single person changed their vote and different age groups voted exactly as they did at the referendum, remain would now win.

There is no mandate for a hard Brexit, or arguably even now soft Brexit.

If we have a hard Brexit without the people having a say democracy is dead I agree.

The problem with our democracy at the moment is that it has been tasked with delivering the undeliverable... there is no consensus on that Brexit should look like, and no way of reflecting the vastly conflicting views of the people.

People who have an inadequate understanding of politics may feel betrayed by the fact our politicians have been unable to agree on Brexit, but to be fair they represent a diverse group of constituencies who would each feel betrayed if their interests were not represented.

The inevitable consequence was constitutional crisis. This isn't some elitist conspiracy or plot to get out of Brexit, it's just what happens when a government has no way to reach agreement. It's hard to see any way at all out of it beyond going back to the people, which ironically is the most democratic thing you can do in the event of such a consensus failure and constitutional crisis.

But that would mean that the democratic vote that won the right to leave, was immaterial therefore holding no accountability and therefore true democracy is indeed dead, should as you say, another vote would have to take place.

[John2]

But that would mean that the democratic vote that won the right to leave, was immaterial therefore holding no accountability and therefore true democracy is indeed dead, should as you say, another vote would have to take place.

Not if the result of the original referendum turned out to be undeliverable in the format given.

If Rotherham United had a vote for fans to keep the old away shirt or pick a new one and they vote for a colour that the manufacturer can supply only with a different style to the once chosen that is widely despised... is it anti democratic to go back and ask the fans to select a different away shirt or keep the old one? If some fans insisted on the away shirt the fans had voted for even though it was impossible for the manufacturer to supply despite the clubs best efforts, wouldn't you think they were being a bit unreasonable? If they started to complain that if they didn't get the shirt they voted for it would be the end of democracy, wouldn't you think they were being a bit hysterical?