Are clubs really the way rival fans see them?

[slack_pie]

With the local derby coming up, I got thinking about the rivalry between ourselves and Mansfield, and the way the two sets of fans view each other.

Based on what I have heard and read from Mansfield fans, they see Notts fans as arrogant. They seem to think we live in a fantasy world where we're a massive club that deserves special treatment, that we bang on about the past, and constantly look down our noses at them.

Is that really how we are, or is it just how we seem to them?

From my perspective, I've always seen our fans as a rather realistic bunch, verging on pessimistic. Rather than expecting or demanding glory, we tend to think that if it can go wrong, it will. I'd say our whole identity is built around the fact that we're long suffering. This is all summed up by the Wheelbarrow Song.

The interesting thing is, the accusations they make against us are exactly the same things we accuse of Forest fans - arrogant, living in the past, ideas above their station, constantly looking down at us, etc

Are Forest fans actually like that, or is that just how we see them?

Does the smaller club in a two-club dynamic tend to develop a complex about their relative size, then throw accusations at the larger club that are purely projections of their own insecurities, or does the bigger club in the dynamic force them into this opinion through arrogant and boastful behaviour?

It's probably a bit of both. But one thing I have noticed regarding Mansfield fans is that they seem to mistake us being a bigger club with us thinking we're a better club.

[Emperorstag]

I don't and never will get this bigger club thing,
What's it based on ?
Attendances
History of winning something?
Averaging playing in a higher league?

All of which is irrelevant in my view as it should be perceived on current status not the past,
For eg, who is the bigger club Bournemouth or Forest,
Sunderland or Huddersfield
Burnley or Aston Villa
Notts or Accrington

All of the above would swap places with the other in a heartbeat but some would perceive the ones they are swapping places with as smaller

[slack_pie]

I don't and never will get this bigger club thing,
What's it based on ?
Attendances
History of winning something?
Averaging playing in a higher league?

All of which is irrelevant in my view as it should be perceived on current status not the past,
For eg, who is the bigger club Bournemouth or Forest,
Sunderland or Huddersfield
Burnley or Aston Villa
Notts or Accrington

All of the above would swap places with the other in a heartbeat but some would perceive the ones they are swapping places with as smaller

Again, I think you are mistaking current league position with club size. They are two totally different things.

While there's no magic formula for ascertaining the size of a club, I'd say it's usually a combination of history and support. For that reason, Leeds, Villa, and even Forest, are clearly bigger clubs than Bournemouth. Are they better? Clearly not. The league pyramid tells us so.

By any quantifiable factor, Notts are a bigger club than Mansfield. We have bigger support, a larger stadium, and a stronger history - even in recent times. This is perhaps the best your club has been in a lifetime, while it's literally the worst we've ever been, and we're still playing each other in the league. This may come across as arrogant, but it isn't meant that way - these are just facts. If it does seem that way, it sort of proves the point I was making in my original post.

That doesn't mean I think we're currently a better club - that's clearly not the case. But league positions change all the time. We were the better club last year, you are this year. The size of a club changes, but much less slowly.

Of course clubs would swap positions with a club in a better league position if given the chance. But if you think clubs would rather give up their history and heritage for a temporarily higher league position, you are totally wrong.

[LaughingMagpie]

Are Forest fans actually like that, or is that just how we see them?

Yes Forest fans are arrogant.

Those of us who were around in the late 70's had all sorts of verbal sh*t thrown at us. Even 40 years later you still get them going on about getting back to where they belong.

[Elite_Pie]

Yes Forest fans are arrogant.

Those of us who were around in the late 70's had all sorts of verbal sh*t thrown at us. Even 40 years later you still get them going on about getting back to where they belong.

That doesn't bother me, the bit that really annoys me is that some of them still believe "We saved your club". A few of them may have chucked a couple of quid in a bucket at the time (and we were grateful), but Haydn Green saved our club.

We should never, ever forget that.

[Emperorstag]

All I'm saying is .. who cares,
I certainly don't.

[Elite_Pie]

All I'm saying is .. who cares,
I certainly don't.

The fact that you have cared enough to register and post on here suggests otherwise.

[LilCrazyKim]

Another one we seem to get is the pensioners stereotype. In fairness, although that was always a exaggeration, in the early 2000s there was an issue with the number of young fans we had coming through, but that problem has largely ironed itself out with the Munto season and the fact that Forest have been mediocre for most of the last decade. I'm surprised by how many kids among my daughter's and sons' friends are Notts supporters. They're certainly friends with a lot more than I knew at their age. When I hear about our ageing fan base nowadays I just laugh.

Of course we have our own stereotypes for others. We seem to think Stags fans are all meatheads with chips on their shoulders, when the two I work with are no such thing, and I'd actually much rather talk football with them than fans of other teams I could mention.

[BigFatPie]

Opposition fans are a bit like what lots of people think about immigrants; they don’t like them until they get to know them personally, then they’re alright.

Obviously I’ve never ever met a Mansfield fan so I can’t stand the tw@ts.

[queenslandpie]

Opposition fans are a bit like what lots of people think about immigrants; they don’t like them until they get to know them personally, then they’re alright.

Obviously I’ve never ever met a Mansfield fan so I can’t stand the tw@ts.

Mansfield fans are the biggest glory hunters going. The fact they are taking more away than they average at home says it all. I don't know how Notts can be perceived as arrogant though. Clearly just like Florist are a bigger club than Notts, Notts are a bigger club than Mansfield that is just the way it is. Ultimately things always iron themselves in football and whatever happens this season in 4 or 5 years Notts will be ahead of the stags in terms of support and league position and support base. I mean how could you possibly think a comment like that is arrogant?