Anti-semitism and the Labour Party

[The Bedlington Terrier]

perhaps - is what happens when people feel their basic rights, such as freedom to question - are violated....they become angry and resentful - though I really don't know why that should cause them to be anti-semitic.....there's something wrong there

The blame culture and a racist agenda are what motivates it Norder, inflamed by goofballs like the Orange Buffoon. (Cue sinkov.)

[sinkov]

The blame culture and a racist agenda are what motivates it Norder, inflamed by goofballs like the Orange Buffoon. (Cue sinkov.)

You really are a Basket Case BT, of course I mean that in the nicest possible sense, you are a member of a political party whose leader travels abroad to lay wreaths on the graves of his friends, Islamic terrorists, whose whole lives were dedicated to murdering Jews. Your Labour Party is constantly fighting a battle against anti-semites embedded deep within it, including the leadership, but you seem to have no sense of shame regarding the company you keep, and you still feel free to moan about the Donald. But you are right in one respect, the Donald is a buffoon, a clown, what's Corbyn's excuse ?

[blueheeler1]

You really are a Basket Case BT, of course I mean that in the nicest possible sense, you are a member of a political party whose leader travels abroad to lay wreaths on the graves of his friends, Islamic terrorists, whose whole lives were dedicated to murdering Jews. Your Labour Party is constantly fighting a battle against anti-semites embedded deep within it, including the leadership, but you seem to have no sense of shame regarding the company you keep, and you still feel free to moan about the Donald. But you are right in one respect, the Donald is a buffoon, a clown, what's Corbyn's excuse ?

It's a sad fact that all the words in the world will not have one single impact on a person's deep, in-built belief.

Anthony Julius,a British solicitor advocate and academic, known among other things for his actions on behalf of Diana, Princess of Wales and Deborah Lipstadt finds that the English were endlessly imaginative in inventing anti-Semitic allegations against the Jews. He says that England became the "principal promoter, and indeed in some sense the inventor of literary anti-Semitism. In his book, Julius argues that blood libel (first mentioned in England in 1144) is the key, because it incorporates the themes that Jews are malevolent, constantly conspiring against Christians, powerful, and merciless. Variations include stories about Jews poisoning wells, twisting minds, and buying and selling Christian souls and bodies.

Anti-semitism has been rife in England for many centuries and was inflamed by various Kings and Barons as it suited their political and financial agendas.

It was England that made Jews wear the Star of David on their coats--long before Germany had the idea.

Jews were expelled from England in 1290 by Edward 1 and that lasted until Cromwell several hundred years later.

I guess if you have rampant anti-semitism for so very long it becomes part of the culture, myths and mindset of a country so that it becomes easy and effortless to accept the lies spread by the Holocaust deniers.

here will be plenty of people in England that still haven't met a Jew; talked to a Jew or socialised with a Jew but have strong onions about Jews in any case.

How does that happen?

[The Bedlington Terrier]

How does that happen? Good question blueheeler1. I mentioned earlier in this thread that Rebecca Long Bailey (Shadow Minister) was to attend a Labour Party Social Evening last night.

She came, she saw and she conquered. Bottom line, Rebecca is a Corbynite but she is part of a group of Labour MP's who Rebecca claims are determined to address and eradicate anti-Semitism within her party. I got the feeling she means it.

It is now obvious to me that anti-Semitism is still embedded throughout society in general, which after the Holocaust is quite staggering to realise.

Islamophobia, anti-Semitism hate speech and racism are endemic. It's 2019 and we still have such a long way to go to end opposition to the "others". Trump and his ilk are the enemy within, not the Jews.
a

[blueheeler1]

How does that happen? Good question blueheeler1. I mentioned earlier in this thread that Rebecca Long Bailey (Shadow Minister) was to attend a Labour Party Social Evening last night.

She came, she saw and she conquered. Bottom line, Rebecca is a Corbynite but she is part of a group of Labour MP's who Rebecca claims are determined to address and eradicate anti-Semitism within her party. I got the feeling she means it.

It is now obvious to me that anti-Semitism is still embedded throughout society in general, which after the Holocaust is quite staggering to realise.

Islamophobia, anti-Semitism hate speech and racism are endemic. It's 2019 and we still have such a long way to go to end opposition to the "others". Trump and his ilk are the enemy within, not the Jews.
a

BT the enemy of hate is knowledge.

If you can understand people's differences and not be susceptible to snide generalisations and remarks aimed at bringing the other person down then you are well on the way to accepting that if you walk on two legs you are a human being just with some human groups having different beliefs and customs.

These beliefs and customs do not make any one particular group better or worse than the other.

It's all quite simple really.

Sometimes the challenge is far less difficult than first thought.

[sinkov]

"It is now obvious to me that anti-Semitism is still embedded throughout society in general, which after the Holocaust is quite staggering to realise."


It might be endemic in the Labour Party BT, it might well be in sections of the Muslim community, but it certainly isn't throughout society in general. It does seem the problem is largely confined to the Labour Party,

"The media reported that in an August 2017 YouGov survey of 2,025 British Jews, 83% of respondents thought the Labour party was too tolerant of antisemitism whereas 19% thought the same of the Conservative party; According to Stephen Daisley, the Labour Party has, in the past, quickly taken a stance against groups where racism, ***ism, and homophobia had been tolerated. However, in his opinion, anti-Semitism is now routine within the party, and that by its own definition, the party is now "institutionally anti-Semitic".

Outside of the Labour Party, the Muslim community and a few right-wing nut-jobs, there is no culture of anti-Semitism in the UK, which is why it's so shocking to find it so deeply embedded in the Labour Party.

"In 2017 the Institute for Jewish Policy Research conducted what it called "the largest and most detailed survey of attitudes towards Jews and Israel ever conducted in Great Britain." The survey found that the levels of anti-Semitism in Great Britain were among the lowest in the world, with 2.4% expressing multiple anti-Semitic attitudes, and about 70% having a favourable opinion of Jews."

[The Bedlington Terrier]

You can keep spouting figures and percentages from the disingenuous with an anti-Corbyn agenda all you like sinkov but the reality is a whole lot different.

The Labour Party NEC have a couple of "Witchfinder Generals" with whom I have had a couple of really interesting recent meetings. We have the usual "shock and awe" tactics by the likes of Smeeth, Hodge and Berger who have an absolute loathing of Jeremy Corbyn because of his pro-Palestinian stance and hit the "Semitism is rife in the Labour Party" bollox at any opportunity.

According to the two "Witchfinder Generals" they have discovered what they describe as "abhorrent and loathsome" anti-Semitic tropes by around a dozen Labour Party members on social media. The perpetrators have been suspended sine die.

Their mortal fear is that some mixed up nut job from wherever would repeat the Jo Cox assassination on one of our Jewish MP's. It deeply saddens every single Labour Party member I know (and that's a lot) that Ruth Smeeth and Luciana Berger feel they need Police protection at any Labour Party event.

Whether their concerns are legitimate or not is beyond my pay grade, but until every politician from whatever Party is free of fear we all need to step up to the plate and make sure the murder of a MP like Jo Cox is never, ever repeated.

[sinkov]

My post BT was in response to your claim that anti-Semitism was embedded throughout society in general. I'm just pointing out that in the case of the UK, the problem seems mainly confined to the Labour Party and the Muslim community, not society in general.

Try this from,

Johannes Due Enstad Department of Literature, Area Studies and European Languages, University of Oslo Center for Research on Extremism (C-REX), University of Oslo. Oslo, June 2017

"Combining incident data based on police reporting with a 2012 survey on antisemitism carried out by the European Union’s Fundamental Rights Agency (FRA), this report tentatively compares the levels of antisemitic violence in different countries. The seven-country sample contains comparable data for France, UK, Germany and Sweden only. Among these countries, Jews’ exposure to antisemitic violence appears to have been highest in France, lower in Sweden and Germany, and lowest in the United Kingdom."


"lowest in the United Kingdom"

[The Bedlington Terrier]

A different academic Timothy Snyder, the Levin Professor of History at Yale University, recently claimed Donald Trump, “bases his rhetoric on the fascist idea of ‘us and them,’ leads fascist chants at rallies, encourages his supporters to use violence, muses that Hillary Clinton should be assassinated, denigrates the intelligence of African Americans, associates migrants with criminality, runs an anti-Semitic advertisement, spreads the Nazi trope of Jews as ‘globalists,’ and endorses the anti-Semitic idea that Jewish financier George Soros is responsible for political opposition”.
Not just Corbyn then?

[The Bedlington Terrier]

What confuses me about this sinkov: "Combining incident data based on police reporting with a 2012 survey on antisemitism carried out by the European Union’s Fundamental Rights Agency (FRA), this report tentatively compares the levels of anti-Semitic violence in different countries. The seven-country sample contains comparable data for France, UK, Germany and Sweden only. Among these countries, Jews’ exposure to anti-Semitic violence appears to have been highest in France, lower in Sweden and Germany, and lowest in the United Kingdom," is that the Jewish Labour Movement, and in particular Labour Jewish MPs: Louise Ellman, Fabian Hamilton, Ivan Lewis, Margaret Hodge, Ed Miliband, Luciana Berger, Alex Sobel and Ruth Smeeth can find it on every corner, even if anti-Semitism is "lowest in the United Kingdom" .