A New Political Force?

[Greavseywolf]

the winter of discontent. sat in the classroom and all the lights went out and the heating went off. No one could do anything, rubbish built up in the streets and you couldn't even get buried. .

did not really happen stripes..just more lies circulated by the tory right wing press...

[boingy]

Prominent Leavers have had decades to plan how we would leave the EU, and they don't have one. It's the reason why its so hard to leave the EU.

Mostly, its because whatever way we leave will leave us economically worse off. The governments own Brexit department has confirmed this.

There is no economically better deal on the table than remaining in the EU.

So what PM is going to go ahead and confirm they will make the public worse off...

m

The EU is the reason it's hard to leave the EU. None of us voted to sign the treaties. NONE of us. It was only a trading zone before, now it's complete mess that no one wants to be in! It won't be around soon and we won't go down with it if we get out quick enough! 2 years of spineless sucking up to the EU by remoaners. Beyond shocking.

[Leicesterbaggie]

You'll also then know that democracy is a process and doesn't stand still. The public now know a lot more than we did in 2016 about the effects of leaving. Real democracy is to have another vote.

And seriously, your last comment made me laugh a lot. So Brexiteers knew they were voting for this mess we're in then?

Stop blaming remainers for the mess that prominent leavers have put us in. There is no clear plan put forward by Brexiteers that make us any better off than before. International companies are cutting jobs in their droves. Food prices will go up in a no deal Brexit. Every impartial report (including the Govt's own Brexit report) shows we will be worse off.

The real ignorant people are ones who advocate leaving without a deal and trading on WTO terms. If you are one of those people, you have absolutely zero idea about international trade or UK economics. Basically you have no idea what you are talking about.

I'm fed up of hearing The Sun and Mail sound bytes like 'will of the people' and 'leave means leave'. Do some proper reading and stop spouting such utter crap. WTF is a leave vote? Prominent leavers can't even agree so what chance do you reckon any of us do??

Finally, history will certainly judge everyone involved and for Johnson, Gove, Fox and Farage...it won't be pretty. Somehow, these charlatans still have jobs for which they are incompetent and platforms for which they can talk rubbish and people are still falling for it.

It's a pity that you and I are on opposite sides of the political divide as we often agree on things Albion.

I would like to make a couple of observations. Firstly, I do not read the Sun, Mail or the Mirror, I want to leave with a deal and the only reason I callers Remainers ignorant is because it was them who claimed that Brexiteers were ignorant in the first place which IS self indulgent and ignorant.

If you read bordering's post, whose points are pretty well based on facts and not mights or maybes, why would anybody want to remain in an institution which is in decline? Nobody knows what the future holds, in or out. The one thing that I do know is that as a Brexiteer I consider myself a reasonably intelligent individual and along with 52% of the electorate voted to leave and no, I don't believe we are in any better position to know what to do now, in fact I believe we are more confused.

[boingy]

I have nothing but respect for those who voted to leave and then accepted the will of the people. Those I have absolutely no respect for are those Remainers who claim to be democratic but only if the vote goes their way. History will judge them and not in a good light.

Look up in the dictionary the meaning of the word democracy and I quote, 'a form of government in which SUPREME power is vested in the people and exercised by them or their elected agents under a free electoral system'. MP's please note! At no point does it say that if you don't agree with the result you have another until it does.

Finally, don't spout that garbage that Brexiteers didn't know what they were voting for. Those are the meanderings of self indulgent, hypocritical and yes, ignorant individuals.

I didn't need a referendum. 20 years ago it was obvious which way the EU was going and I couldn't believe we were in it....We finally had a chance to leave and all those so called politicians who didn't get on board should be sacked. A couple of days moaning after the result would be acceptable......2 years is an absolute disgrace, add to that all the media brexit hate and bias toward the money sucking EU and the likes of air space to the likes of Anna Soubre and co and the lack of respect for the vote is disgusting. We have had to sit through this for 2 years spitting at the TV screen. There has been a constant pushing to get what they want, and don't give me all that Brexit will cost us jobs etc....add up all the companies that went bust or moved abroad whilst we were IN THE EU. No one mentions that but they are quick to say that companies are now moving because of the THOUGHT of brexit. Honestly makes your blood boil!!!!

[9goals2hattricks3pen]

I don't understand why anyone can't see that all the major countries of the EU are in a mess both politically and economically. The tiny Greek economy nearly brought the EU to its knees. When the Italian economy goes pop the further removed from it we are the better.

There were some dredgers in the channel today. Hopefully they were digging it a bit wider.

[boingy]

I don't understand why anyone can't see that all the major countries of the EU are in a mess both politically and economically. The tiny Greek economy nearly brought the EU to its knees. When the Italian economy goes pop the further removed from it we are the better.

There were some dredgers in the channel today. Hopefully they were digging it a bit wider.

They have been paid off, plain and simple. Fingers in pies.

[mickd1961]

I didn't need a referendum. 20 years ago it was obvious which way the EU was going and I couldn't believe we were in it....We finally had a chance to leave and all those so called politicians who didn't get on board should be sacked. A couple of days moaning after the result would be acceptable......2 years is an absolute disgrace, add to that all the media brexit hate and bias toward the money sucking EU and the likes of air space to the likes of Anna Soubre and co and the lack of respect for the vote is disgusting. We have had to sit through this for 2 years spitting at the TV screen. There has been a constant pushing to get what they want, and don't give me all that Brexit will cost us jobs etc....add up all the companies that went bust or moved abroad whilst we were IN THE EU. No one mentions that but they are quick to say that companies are now moving because of the THOUGHT of brexit. Honestly makes your blood boil!!!!

So true Boingy.

20 years ago my late father was scathing about the EU.

He predicted that what was supposed to be a common marketplace,a free trade zone was actually a good idea which was being highjacked by non elected “intellectual elite” to create a massive federal state.

He said that it wouldn’t surprise him if the “Blair creature” didn’t end up as it’s president in the future.

The question that should’ve been put to the people around 1990 was.....”Are you willing to be a part of a federal state ( losing individual sovereignty ) and being ruled by a non elected elite?

We have been stitched up by career politicians of both sides signing up to treaties that had no withdrawal terms written into them.

No businessman would’ve signed those treaties,only complete imbeciles with no nous or business acumen.

[stripes39]

So true Boingy.

20 years ago my late father was scathing about the EU.

He predicted that what was supposed to be a common marketplace,a free trade zone was actually a good idea which was being highjacked by non elected “intellectual elite” to create a massive federal state.

He said that it wouldn’t surprise him if the “Blair creature” didn’t end up as it’s president in the future.

The question that should’ve been put to the people around 1990 was.....”Are you willing to be a part of a federal state ( losing individual sovereignty ) and being ruled by a non elected elite?

We have been stitched up by career politicians of both sides signing up to treaties that had no withdrawal terms written into them.

No businessman would’ve signed those treaties,only complete imbeciles with no nous or business acumen.

That is so true Mick. Tony Benn said that all politicians are nothing more than custodians entrusted to safeguard our constitution until they get democratically removed then it’s the turn of the next ones. He said that all you do is to be entrusted to steadily hold the reins so to speak and that those politicians like Blair that handed powers over to Europe were wrong as they were never theirs to give away in the first place as our constitution belongs to the people not politicians. Major was another half wit who signed the Maastricht Agreement before famously saying ‘I’d better read it now’.

It’s ironic that so many remoaners are on about lies being told by the Leave team when the whole county was blatantly lied to and the real direction of the EU was withheld from the public by the government of the time and the EU prior to the vote to join as cabinet records released under the 30 year rule now prove.

[Leicesterbaggie]

Whilst we're on the subject, I think that it's a disgrace that Soubry, Allen and Wollaston have defected from the Tory party. Their constituencies voted 55%' 54% and 60% respectively to leave the EU. They are there to represent those voters and not for their own personal agendas. As I stated in a previous thread, in a democracy it is the people who are supreme and MP's are only the agents of the people. If they want to relinquish their seats, that's fine, but to remain as an MP as an Independant is wrong. They were voted in under a Tory umbrella and not for their individual charisma! I know that it is legitimate but it doesn't make it morally correct.

[boingy]

So true Boingy.

20 years ago my late father was scathing about the EU.

He predicted that what was supposed to be a common marketplace,a free trade zone was actually a good idea which was being highjacked by non elected “intellectual elite” to create a massive federal state.

He said that it wouldn’t surprise him if the “Blair creature” didn’t end up as it’s president in the future.

The question that should’ve been put to the people around 1990 was.....”Are you willing to be a part of a federal state ( losing individual sovereignty ) and being ruled by a non elected elite?

We have been stitched up by career politicians of both sides signing up to treaties that had no withdrawal terms written into them.

No businessman would’ve signed those treaties,only complete imbeciles with no nous or business acumen.

Spot on Mick......total bias. There's a bloke on Quora banging on about why Jacob Rees Mogg wants to leave because of how much money he makes if we do.......how come this bloke hasn't mentioned the hundreds of mp's who will lose stupid amounts of money by leaving the EU?...That's why they are gripping so tight, they have been bought and don't want to lose money. Its a fact that failed politicians from this country get paid jobs in the EU, that includes the likes of Blair and Kinnock....slippy slimey snakes.