A New Political Force?

[WBA123]

As a country, we aren’t quite the basket case you would imply and neither are several of our EU neighbors shining examples of economic excellence either. Despite several of the examples you give being entirely down to Brexit, how about a little bit of balance?

UK employment is at a record high of 32.6million. Falling unemployment, at four per cent, is the lowest since 1975. Wages up 3.4 per cent, their fastest since 2008 with inflation down to 1.8 per cent so despite all of this uncertainty over the mess aka Brexit (which there is) we are in a better place than many of our neighbors if you care to examine their respective records.

I recently spent a period at Dyson HQ on an assignment where this was a hot topic. At no point was Brexit ever considered a factor in jobs being lost at the HQ. The move to Singapore is primarily due to an increasing majority of Dyson’s customer base and the manufacturing operations that support this now being in Asia. This has been on the cards pre-Brexit. It’s all about cost of manufacture and the logistics to ship stock out from the UK. Why would you not manufacture in the region half way across the globe where you are seeing your highest growth in revenues?

Oh, and you also neglected to mention that Dyson moving forwards will still employ double the number of staff that it did 4 years ago and that they are well in to a £200 Million investment program to support the R&D and testing facility in Wiltshire. I wouldn’t say that was a company pulling out would you?

Regarding the Japanese car industry, Honda itself does not blame Brexit as a factor. They acknowledge that the plant has struggled for a long time and that the car industry is going through unprecedented times. Sales of diesel cars are not only in free-fall in the UK, where demand fell by almost 30%, but also on mainland Europe. The only plant in the EU outside of Japan where they manufacture is Swindon. They are not switching to another EU location due to Brexit. You neglected to mention that they are also closing a large plant in Turkey and I don’t believe Turkey are involved in Brexit.

The facts, though, are that Japan no longer needs to make cars in Europe because the EU trade deal it has finally signed will cut its export tariffs to zero meaning its cheaper to manufacture in Japan than in the EU - even more so now the Japanese government is offering large incentives to manufacturers to relocate manufacturing.

Nissan is a company in crisis which has just had its chairman arrested and is under investigation so lots going on there. The X-Trail is diesel powered and it has been suggested that Nissan was struggling to ensure the engines with which the new vehicle was to have been powered complied with the EU's new emissions regulations. It has also been suggested that, with diesel falling in demand, it would have been prohibitively expensive for Nissan to ship petrol engines from Japan to fuel the new line.

It simply means that the estimated 700 or so jobs that would have been created as a result of production of the X-Trail will now not be. It does not mean any of the existing 7,000 or so workers at Sunderland will lose their jobs. The company has no plans to remove production of the zero-emission Leaf, the world's best-selling electric vehicle either.

I’m not pretending that the uncertainty and dithering by useless politicians over Brexit hasn’t caused the jitters in many quarters and caused several businesses to up sticks because it has. It’s far from ideal but I just wish remainer's like yourself would retain a degree of balance. In between sneering at fellow posters for reading in to what you cite as biased reporting of facts, you might well add a bit more balance to your own arguments rather than seeking to blame everything on Brexit when it is clearly not the case.

Good post.

I'm not saying Nissan aren't building the X-trail or that Honda have pulled out purely because of Brexit. I'm saying that Brexit is a contributory factor towards that decision. Its nothing to do with balance when jobs are lost and Brexit has contributed towards that decision making process. Seems to me that Brexiteers bury their head in the sand and just seek to discredit every credible source or company.

It doesn't help when Boris Johnson says F%@k business. Many of the companies here are foreign owned, and we are putting trade barriers in place with the largest trading bloc in the world and our largest customer.

UK employment is at a record high because of the way they measure it. One hour part time jobs per week and zero hours contracts now count towards it.

Brexit has created a situation where we have no idea what will happen after March 29th. Business uncertainty and a lack of clarity from the government is causing major headaches across the country. This could be an absolute disaster and Brexit is the cause. I'm happy for reasoned debate, but have no idea why anyone would advocate a no deal Brexit. Its plain lunacy.

And I still can't work out one tangible benefit of why we are doing this.

[9goals2hattricks3pen]

Good post.

I'm not saying Nissan aren't building the X-trail or that Honda have pulled out purely because of Brexit. I'm saying that Brexit is a contributory factor towards that decision. Its nothing to do with balance when jobs are lost and Brexit has contributed towards that decision making process. Seems to me that Brexiteers bury their head in the sand and just seek to discredit every credible source or company.

It doesn't help when Boris Johnson says F%@k business. Many of the companies here are foreign owned, and we are putting trade barriers in place with the largest trading bloc in the world and our largest customer.

UK employment is at a record high because of the way they measure it. One hour part time jobs per week and zero hours contracts now count towards it.

Brexit has created a situation where we have no idea what will happen after March 29th. Business uncertainty and a lack of clarity from the government is causing major headaches across the country. This could be an absolute disaster and Brexit is the cause. I'm happy for reasoned debate, but have no idea why anyone would advocate a no deal Brexit. Its plain lunacy.

And I still can't work out one tangible benefit of why we are doing this.

Is not £8+ billion net contribution to the EU tangible? (Their figures not ours so probably wrong!)

[WBA123]

Is not £8+ billion net contribution to the EU tangible? (Their figures not ours so probably wrong!)

Not when you take away single market membership, no.

[WBA123]

Haven't we just annouced record employment for us Brits and wage rises ahead of inflation for the first time since 2008 despite the looming 'threat' of Brexit?

The main reason given was the number of EU workers leaving.Something else we can pin on Brexit? If as the 5th biggest economy in the World we can't make a go of it then we may as well all leave anyway?

Do you reckon that wage rise may have had more to do with the Tories finally giving NHS workers a 3% payrise in June? I hope it continues, but the BCC aren't confident.

[9goals2hattricks3pen]

Good post.

I'm not saying Nissan aren't building the X-trail or that Honda have pulled out purely because of Brexit. I'm saying that Brexit is a contributory factor towards that decision. Its nothing to do with balance when jobs are lost and Brexit has contributed towards that decision making process. Seems to me that Brexiteers bury their head in the sand and just seek to discredit every credible source or company.

It doesn't help when Boris Johnson says F%@k business. Many of the companies here are foreign owned, and we are putting trade barriers in place with the largest trading bloc in the world and our largest customer.

UK employment is at a record high because of the way they measure it. One hour part time jobs per week and zero hours contracts now count towards it.

Brexit has created a situation where we have no idea what will happen after March 29th. Business uncertainty and a lack of clarity from the government is causing major headaches across the country. This could be an absolute disaster and Brexit is the cause. I'm happy for reasoned debate, but have no idea why anyone would advocate a no deal Brexit. Its plain lunacy.

And I still can't work out one tangible benefit of why we are doing this.

and cheaper bananas

[stripes39]

Good post.

I'm not saying Nissan aren't building the X-trail or that Honda have pulled out purely because of Brexit. I'm saying that Brexit is a contributory factor towards that decision. Its nothing to do with balance when jobs are lost and Brexit has contributed towards that decision making process. Seems to me that Brexiteers bury their head in the sand and just seek to discredit every credible source or company.

It doesn't help when Boris Johnson says F%@k business. Many of the companies here are foreign owned, and we are putting trade barriers in place with the largest trading bloc in the world and our largest customer.

UK employment is at a record high because of the way they measure it. One hour part time jobs per week and zero hours contracts now count towards it.

Brexit has created a situation where we have no idea what will happen after March 29th. Business uncertainty and a lack of clarity from the government is causing major headaches across the country. This could be an absolute disaster and Brexit is the cause. I'm happy for reasoned debate, but have no idea why anyone would advocate a no deal Brexit. Its plain lunacy.

And I still can't work out one tangible benefit of why we are doing this.

I can't disagree with most of what you say there. There is no denying that the handling of this over the last 2 years has been utterly appalling and yes i do believe our incompetent politicians have caused several companies such as Sony to say enough.

One minor point but rather than Brexit being the cause of this unrest, I'd say its the handling of it that's been the problem and the lack of certainty all the dithering has sent out. Had the last 2 years been used productively and had the people who promised the benefits of leaving been involved in the negotiations rather than a sceptical civil service and remain politicians, we may we have been in a different place and we all could have judged them accordingly. Then, maybe then I'd be in favour of voting on whether they'd delivered on their promises or not. I would agree that with the examples we've highlighted, Brexit uncertainty has not helped an already uncertain market like car manufacturing but I do think these factors would be in play in several cases regardless.

[9goals2hattricks3pen]

Do you reckon that wage rise may have had more to do with the Tories finally giving NHS workers a 3% payrise in June? I hope it continues, but the BCC aren't confident.

As the average increase was around 3% I would suggest the NHS increase was not a factor. Another made up stat to support a busted concept?

Local news just visited a windows manufacturer who because of the shortage of skilled workers were having to raise their wages. £45k was mentioned. For me that is a truer reflection of what is going on out there.

[Albionic68]

........read impartial news sources............

Please excuse me as I haven't read the whole thread and have no intention of doing so. In truth I haven't even read the whole of your post but these few words leaped out at me like a pink hippo in a bikini whilst post skimming. Just wondering whether these impartial news source thingies could be found next to the pixies, the unicorns or somewhere in between them?

I tend to advise people not to rely on news sources for impartial information. For a whole host of reasons including time and budget restraints articles are often poorly researched, and this is even before we get to issues such as impartiality or potential bias. Use news sources as a guide for what to look for if you have to, but don't rely on them.

The truth is out there..........

[mickd1961]

Ah yes, but in the UK its going swimmingly.

Only 3500 job losses this week for Honda. Alongside 4500 for JLR. Along with Nissan pulling out of making the X-Trail. Along with Sony and Panosonic leaving their head office for Europe. Along with the EMA moving to Amsterdam. At least Dyson is fully supporting Brexit though eh... by moving to Singapore. Airbus about to move. Thousands of jobs lost, thousands more under threat.

But on the positive we get blue passports. Brilliant.

Here we go with the scare tactics on jobs again.

On Tuesday of this week EVERY news station was reporting that the number in employment had risen by a huge chunk again in recent months and that the number of people in work was the largest in history.

The unemployment rate at 4% was the lowest since 1975.......that’s 44 f king years!!

Wages were rising at around 3.4% more than 1% more than inflation.

I’m not saying this is Eutopia but we are British and a huge number of us have balls.

We fight our way out of adversity throughout history.

I’ve lived through the horrors of the Labour governed 70’s,recessions in early 80’s and 90’s and the 2008 financial meltdown and every time the doom monger like you were wearing the hood and waving the sycle.

I’m sick of the “surrender monkey” mentality.

Most on here know what I do for my living,I don’t remember you ever staying in which field you work?

People need to discover some backbone and create their own future rather than expecting a job for life.

[stripes39]

Here we go with the scare tactics on jobs again.

On Tuesday of this week EVERY news station was reporting that the number in employment had risen by a huge chunk again in recent months and that the number of people in work was the largest in history.

The unemployment rate at 4% was the lowest since 1975.......that’s 44 f king years!!

Wages were rising at around 3.4% more than 1% more than inflation.

I’m not saying this is Eutopia but we are British and a huge number of us have balls.

We fight our way out of adversity throughout history.

I’ve lived through the horrors of the Labour governed 70’s,recessions in early 80’s and 90’s and the 2008 financial meltdown and every time the doom monger like you were wearing the hood and waving the sycle.

I’m sick of the “surrender monkey” mentality.

Most on here know what I do for my living,I don’t remember you ever staying in which field you work?

People need to discover some backbone and create their own future rather than expecting a job for life.

I think 123 works for Facebook. Nick Clegg maybe??