Sorry but maybe it's time for a change

[robinrover]

It isn't the losing that hurts aucks,it is the way Some look like they don't care
We are making the same mistakes and Mowbray is saying the same things
What I saw on Saturday with my own eyes,is a team that looks very disjointed and unsure of each other
Small problems can soon become big
We are heading towards the big end of the scale.

[Despair]

I can only really put this down to our age Aucks 😏 .
If i cast my mind back to my 20’s 😱 yep a up or down in my ‘mood’ could be attributed to the fortunes of Rovers!
I think the one 🤔 benefit of aging is being able to start to take most things in your stride and use a more realistic / rational approach to ‘proceedings’.
I dont know of anyone else, but i can think of numerous more ‘things’ going off around me than whether Rovees pick up 3 or 1 or no points on the Saturday. Its nice when they do , but its not the ‘end if the world’ if they dont.
I recall Champs commenting over the ‘crazy’ guy close by in stands during match ‘ranting and raving’ over this, that or any other event !
Yep we’ve all been there 😤 .
Thats some way at the opposite end of spectrum in being ‘rational’, albeit the alternative labelling seems to be ‘happy clapper’ 🤔 .
Just where does the rational but demonstrative dedicated fan/supporter ‘justifyably’ sit betwixt the two ???

[champs95]

But, Champs, if the PL is all that matters, where we are now is just the same as being beaten in the play-off final. We would still be in the Championship (where - as you know - I think we belong).
You say we are "miles away" from any chance of challenging. Really? We have picked up one point from 18, and we are still only ten points from a play-off place.
Six weeks ago, you were telling us we were negative for not believing that we were on a run that would take us to the top-six. Now, everything is a disaster, and Mowbray is hopeless.
Despair and I predicted 14th place. That still seems to me a realistic target.
The current players are running out of steam, and we clearly need an input of new blood, just as Mowbray has been saying this week. Who's to say what impact that will have next season? I don't know, but I never claim to, because I have been watching football for so long that I accept predictions are little more than guesswork.
In my eyes, Derby were hot favourites for promotion. Now they are struggling a bit, but they might still come good. That's the point: teams' fortunes often change dramatically for no obvious reason. Look at Burnley. They couldn't buy a win until the New Year. Then they had an excellent run. Suddenly? A bit pear-shaped again.
We won't necessarily lose our next few matches because we've done so badly recently. Obviously, confidence is low, which is always a negative factor, but all it takes, sometimes, is a stroke of luck - an own goal, a deflection, etc.
Looking back at Saturday, how did Mowbray's corner not go in? The ball seemed to defy the laws of physics. If it had, who knows?
That's my point, really. Blaming a manager every time something goes wrong is just cheap, convenient and lazy.
I can't believe you've turned on Mowbray so quickly. There is always so much more involved than the input of one man. As I said, is Ranieri a "bad" manager now? What about Hodgson? Most Rovers fans don't think much of him, but what would happen if you asked Palace fans at the moment? Alex Neil is another with a yo-yo career. In fact, the majority are the same!
By the way, which of the miracle-workers do you have in mind as a replacement?
I am stoical by nature, but I am also realistic. By the standards you are imposing, there are only three successful Championship teams a year. I think that's nonsense. I am quite happy to survive this season. Then I will observe, with interest, who Mowbray brings in, and how he begins to utilise the best of our Under-23s.
To be honest, I wouldn't watch football at all if losing and/or disappointment made me as angry as it appears to make some people. If that's the way you react, you are on a hiding to nothing as a football supporter...unless you follow Man. City!

We have the worst defence in the league. We have conceded the most away goals in all of English football's top 4 divisions. It is absolutely pathetic. I'm not naive enough to simply blame all this one just the manager. But I do have to ask? Who is accountable? The fans? Me? The coaching staff? The players? Or the manager? Or a mix of all of them? Stats are stats. Not long ago, we where 3 points away from the play offs. Now we are 11 points away from relegation. And we keep losing to sides in the bottom 3 dragging them closer and closer.
14th is simply not good enough for a club wanting to push on a bit. I'd expect that from Wigan or Rotherham. We spent miles more than those clubs, we are much bigger. And this is a massive cop out. Settling for crapness. Well I have absolutely no interest in that. So they now lose a paying customer. They can blame it on the weather for all I like. The fact remains, we have the worst defence in the league. I didn't put that side together. I don't train them. I don't keep changing the side every week. I do however follow them all over the place. The last time I saw a side fall apart so badly, was when Hodgson was here. As good as it was in his first season, it fell apart so badly, it took us years to recover. We got relegated after he left, as the rot had set in so much. Small problems suddenly turned into huge ones. The rot has well and truly set in, at an alarming rate. All the good that came in the first season, quickly disappeared. By the time he left, it was a toxic club. And a toxic dressing room.

Robin will back this up. On Sat, if you looked at our body language (the players) arguing, bickering, blaming one another. Its the worst I have seen it in years. This has been going on since Jan time. And week by week, its getting worse.

Looking at Mowbray's managerial career, he is very much done after his second season. He doesn't get better at a club, he gets worse. I am not blaming every single facet of what is going wrong on one person. If he proves me wrong, then I will be happy. He is a decent guy, and gave us some pride back. I really want him to be the guy who changes all this round. I really would like to see him turn this all around and be given time. He has integrity, in a world of managers who don't. Up to a few months ago, he always seemed to have the answers to any dilemma. At the moment, he just doesn't.

It all goes back to the playing staff, we simply aren't good enough. And the longer the season goes on, the weaker we become. I really want to se Butterworth for example. I would not put him in this side right now. It has no leaders, no team spirit, and no desire to win. It would be bad for his progression. Much the same with Brereton. Someone is accountable for putting that playing staff together. And the book does not stop at the coaches, the fans, the Venkys etc etc. We know who it does fall on. And he has to come up with some answers. For me, that's where the problems are.

[AucklandRover]

Sorry - I can see a ridiculous number of eggs in the "bad manager" basket.
Champs, five or six weeks ago, you were telling us we were seriously underestimating both the squad's ability and Mowbray's managerial skills. Now, you want to get rid of most of the team...and Mowbray is rubbish.
So what do you think he has done on the training-field and in the changing room to take us from one extreme to the other? How is it even credible to put that argument forward?
And Robin, you say it is "the way" we are losing, but I'm just not sure what you mean. I took the trouble to pay to watch a replay of the Bristol City game. We matched a very good, in-form team in almost every department, and the game could have gone either way. Reading was the other one I missed, but I looked at their fans' forum, and they all admitted they could easily have been three-down in the first half-hour. We looked equally as good as Birmingham, and matched Boro apart from in the abysmal first quarter. The Brentford game was a bit freakish, as we looked the better team in the first half. No-one would claim our defence is secure at the moment, and the late-goal habit is infuriating, but saying we lost those games simply BECAUSE OF Mowbray seems to me nonsensical. Why would he have deliberatley changed January's successful formula?
And are you really suggesting that something he has done has changed good players into bad ones in a month? Seriously??!!
Isn't it much more likely that - as usual - multiple factors are involved?
If we had reached our current position via a regular pattern of Lose One/Draw One/Win One, would you still be engaged in this wholesale condemnation?
Bad runs happen...and not just for us!
Of course it's up to the manager to put things right, and we clearly need strengthening in the summer, but you're writing as if we're in Ipswich's position. I think we need a few calmer heads.

[robinrover]

If we continue to wobble like a jelly,I can easily see us slip into trouble.
The Rotherham game was a must not lose,and we did.
Take that to one side,it's what I saw concerned me,we looked without confidence and could easily continue losing.
Now who do we blame for this?
Mowbray?the players?or both?
Yes bad runs happen but it's how you react to them that counts
A massive derby game and that idiot cook coming up
We lose both of those and Rotherham produce gritty displays like Saturday and the 11 points soon disappear and panic sets in.

[AucklandRover]

If we continue to wobble like a jelly,I can easily see us slip into trouble.
The Rotherham game was a must not lose,and we did.
Take that to one side,it's what I saw concerned me,we looked without confidence and could easily continue losing.
Now who do we blame for this?
Mowbray?the players?or both?
Yes bad runs happen but it's how you react to them that counts
A massive derby game and that idiot cook coming up
We lose both of those and Rotherham produce gritty displays like Saturday and the 11 points soon disappear and panic sets in.

Robin - you can get 350-1 with the bookies against us being relegated. They just don't get things that badly wrong!
I hope Rotherham avoid relegation, but look at their remaining games. Their run-in is significantly tougher than ours.
And Reading are away to three of the top six.

[champs95]

Sorry - I can see a ridiculous number of eggs in the "bad manager" basket.
Champs, five or six weeks ago, you were telling us we were seriously underestimating both the squad's ability and Mowbray's managerial skills. Now, you want to get rid of most of the team...and Mowbray is rubbish.
So what do you think he has done on the training-field and in the changing room to take us from one extreme to the other? How is it even credible to put that argument forward?
And Robin, you say it is "the way" we are losing, but I'm just not sure what you mean. I took the trouble to pay to watch a replay of the Bristol City game. We matched a very good, in-form team in almost every department, and the game could have gone either way. Reading was the other one I missed, but I looked at their fans' forum, and they all admitted they could easily have been three-down in the first half-hour. We looked equally as good as Birmingham, and matched Boro apart from in the abysmal first quarter. The Brentford game was a bit freakish, as we looked the better team in the first half. No-one would claim our defence is secure at the moment, and the late-goal habit is infuriating, but saying we lost those games simply BECAUSE OF Mowbray seems to me nonsensical. Why would he have deliberatley changed January's successful formula?
And are you really suggesting that something he has done has changed good players into bad ones in a month? Seriously??!!
Isn't it much more likely that - as usual - multiple factors are involved?
If we had reached our current position via a regular pattern of Lose One/Draw One/Win One, would you still be engaged in this wholesale condemnation?
Bad runs happen...and not just for us!
Of course it's up to the manager to put things right, and we clearly need strengthening in the summer, but you're writing as if we're in Ipswich's position. I think we need a few calmer heads.

I am desperately trying to holds onto any kind of positive. But I do feel some balance needs to be restored here.
You are mentioning the positives only above. In games we still lost.
How about shipping 5 goals away at Brentford? If you'd travelled a few hundred miles to watch that, you would not be taking the positives. You'd have been fuming. Especially if you'd witness us ship 4 away at Preston (to be told it was a one off) 3 away at Wigan (to be told it was a one off, 3 days later). I did walk away from Brentford thinking, 'ah well, we have just won 4 in a row so something had to give, there are reason for this today. But it carried on, and carried on ......
How about us shipping 3 goals to a poor Rotherham side? Such poor goals? Yes we played ok down at Birmingham, but the 2 goals we conceded where very poor. I still don't know how Raya let that equaliser in 22 seconds after we took the lead.
That game vrs Reading. We played ok, and created so many chances. But still managed to lose, and concede 2 shocking goals. That, again, was not in isolation.

Actually, had it not been for those few wins in Jan, we would now be in that bottom 3, or very very close. If's and but's. It's a good job we had a decent enough start to the season, or we'd have struggled all season long. To be fair most said we would, last season. I was wrong, in being positive and believing we are going somewhere. I should have listened to the negativity last season, and at the start of this season. We are one of the poorer sides in this division.
And I tried to dream above that. Thinking we had someone who was going to take us beyond that. That was silly of me, and my fault for putting my faith in where I shouldn't have.

Finally, you mention watching the Bristol City game, where we matched them. And where unlucky. And Boro, where we played pathetically, but where a little unlucky not to get a point. IMO both Bristol City and Boro where and are crap! Nowhere near good enough to go up. Yet they are amongst the top sides in this league. I just don't rate it. Games are even (sometimes) but there is no real class. Boro where bloody dire, and awful. And looked slightly better. This is a side battling for the play offs. Its depressing to see we are miles off that. And I said it a while back, I am just rapidly losing interest. We aren't going anywhere, and if you are around 14th in this league, you are basically as a fan, turning up to watch crap quite a lot. I'm not happy settling for that, I think we could do much better. I expected this of Wigan and Rotherham, not us. I expected more.

[AucklandRover]

I don't agree about Bristol City. Apparently, their game against Norwich was superb.
Boro have a very good defence, but - yes - they lack class. Isn't that, inevitably, the nature of the modern Championship? English football is like an upside down funnel. Look at the PL. Two or three of the top clubs have had so-so seasons, but Chelsea, in sixth place, are still 13 points ahead of the next team!
For the second season running, the other 14 clubs are struggling to get a positive GD, even!
How often, in the future, are promoted clubs going to mount a serious challenge?
I think this is why Despair and I are quite content with Championship football. To be honest, I've reached the point where I'm happy to focus on individual games, rather than worry about where we are in the table.
That's probably why I can't join in with the general, hysterical hair-tearing at the moment.

[champs95]

I don't agree about Bristol City. Apparently, their game against Norwich was superb.
Boro have a very good defence, but - yes - they lack class. Isn't that, inevitably, the nature of the modern Championship? English football is like an upside down funnel. Look at the PL. Two or three of the top clubs have had so-so seasons, but Chelsea, in sixth place, are still 13 points ahead of the next team!
For the second season running, the other 14 clubs are struggling to get a positive GD, even!
How often, in the future, are promoted clubs going to mount a serious challenge?
I think this is why Despair and I are quite content with Championship football. To be honest, I've reached the point where I'm happy to focus on individual games, rather than worry about where we are in the table.
That's probably why I can't join in with the general, hysterical hair-tearing at the moment.

I get that Auks. I just want to be clear. I am simply saying I have pretty much lost interest since it dawned on me (around mid-Jan) that we aren't going anywhere fast. Mid-table maybe at best, in the Champ. You think I am being really down and harsh, all I am saying is neither Norwich or Bristol City, or Leeds, Sheff Utd are actually any good. The game may have been decent enough to watch, as it was even (between Bristol and Norwich) but there was no real class. Just 2 hard working sides. They aren't that great, and to have to settle for being quite a way behind these sides is depressing. I wanted to believe we where heading somewhere. Personally I have no real interest in the Prem. The gulf between the Champ and that league is massive. Going up without a huge sum of money, means you may see about 4/5 wins all season. Heavy defeat after heavy defeat.
Ours is a poor standard, and we are way behind. That's what has become clear. Not long ago, I would travel to Blackpool on a tues night, and not even question it. Or take 2 days off work to go to Portsmouth away in the midweek. Now I simply am not bothering to turn out at 12 on Sat morning.
Ewood is depressing. that was the case when we where doing ok. Hearing 6 thousand Preston fans celebrate beating a poor Rovers side isn't what I have planned high on my agenda this weekend. I don't live anywhere near Blackburn, so even a home game for me is an away game. And when I sit and think about if I should go or not, the decision is pretty simple. I have just lost interest. Players argued with one another last week. Very unprofessional. They trudged off the pitch, didn't bother coming over to thank us all for turning out and supporting them. Mowbray is just winding me up now. I used to enjoy his comments. He bores me now. He says the same things, but nothing is changing.
I am very concerned about the coaching. We have absolutely no team spirit, we look very un-organised. And the locals have well and truly turned. I don't go and moan and shout, even last week. Its not me. I did leave feeling very let down yet again. I am not in a rush to back and repeat that. And I have absolutely no reason to think anything will change, long or short-term.

We may not go down, due to the three sides just having no money, and being terribly run. And having very very poor sides. Not because we are actually any good. We are just slightly better than the absolute crap that is going to get relegated. But miles behind sides like Boro, Bristol City etc who are no good, couldn't go up and do anything. But are way ahead of us.

I don't plan on going back this season, I have now arranged things when we play Derby and Bolton at home. So wont be bothering with going to those games, same with Preston. I am not paying another penny to watch what I saw last weekend away from home. That was Owen Coyle days all over again. Next season I will just keep an eye on things, and go to the odd the game here and there. Crowds will drop again now, now its clear we are heading nowhere. And we get pathetically low crowds anyway.

From the clubs POV, I hope this doesn't dawn on Venkys in the short-term. As they are just putting money into a sinking ship. They wont keep putting money into a club with no fans, and no real ambition to go anywhere. They would have every right to just pack up and leave imo. They are just throwing good money away. They can afford to.

I can't and I just won't be anymore. I've more than seen enough.

[AucklandRover]

Champs - we're all different. When I was following Rovers to some of the bleakest spots in English football, it never occurred to me to stop going. For a long time, there were far more lows than highs, but I just wasn't bothered. It was Saturday, so I went to the game.
I don't think I ever had the emotional commitment that you show. I just didn't want to miss anything.
In the same way, even at the lowest point of the Venky's trough, I wouldn't have boycotted.
I'm still not sure why you are so bothered about us being mediocre. My brother-in-law follows Northampton and Peterborough. He thinks of us as high-flyers!
Does it really matter whether we're eighth or 18th in the Championship? There isn't much difference between teams in those positions, anyway. (At the moment, it's eight points). We belong somewhere in there. Cold fact - and what's wrong with that?
You see this bad run as showing some serious decline within the team's attitude and ability in the last month. I just don't buy that. Why would it happen so suddenly? To me this is just football. A number of things can combine to set a club off on a good run or a bad one. Nearly always, providing most of the teams are on a level playing field, talent-wise, it changes again.
I think fans spend too much time analysing the causes of a particular outcome. In fact, it is almost never as simple as "The manager got it right or wrong." Just think about it: a cross into the area gets accidentally deflected; it falls to an attacker and he scores; it falls to a defender and he clears. No amount of analysis, planning, team-organisation, individual ability (etc) can take account of such random events.
Of course there are patterns, and any manager will pay the price if the pattern goes on too long, but you are never going to sell me the idea that Mowbray has turned from a "good" manager into a "bad" one in five weeks.
Incidentally, one area where I strongly disagree with you is on your judgement about Mowbray's own comments. I still find him far more honest, open and realistic than almost any other manager I have ever heard.