Next season

[robinrover]

Now if we buck up our ideas enough to get the 2 wins required to stay up,what do we need to change this team from lower end championship to play off challengers?
In my opinion we need a goalkeeper to challenge raya
Mowbray clearly isn't keen on our back up.
A couple of good full backs is a must
Bell and nyambe are young and probably will improve but currently are not good enough for this level.
Centre backs oh boy do we need some
At least 2 is required
We also need to look at a challenger to the Graham role and of course the left wing
Conway and Armstrong are not the answer.

[champs95]

Its easier to say who is worth keeping next season, and who needs to move on. This isn't based on the past 6 pathetic performances, but over the season as a whole. Everybody apart from Rothwell has been given a big chance. So nobody can complain.

Raya - Not good enough. Too small, doesn't command his box. Has cost us 4 or 5 games, and is an understudy at best. We have massively suffered because we didn't sign another Championship keeper. No matter how poorly he plays, he starts the following match. Not quite good enough to depend on every week. Retain, but move to No2. Has had his chance, and proved he isn't up to it.

Nyambe - makes way too many mistakes. Cost us games. A decent winger will always get round him. Struggles as he is left wide open with no cover, as our style of play isn't good enough for this standard of football. Its been found out. We have the worst defence in the league. Has had his chance, and proved he isn't up to it. Let him go .....

Rodwell - too slow, isn't commanding enough. And I feel he is the reason for the unrest in the dressing room. I'd prefer we went with one of our own young lad.Has had his chance, and proved he isn't up to it. He isn't worth putting on a decent contract, let him go.

Mulgrew - Can't play CB at this level anymore. Could play in front of the back 4 if we had a manager who knew how to use him, and surround him with ball winners, he could be the man to pick a pass and get our artistic players on the ball. Maybe worth a one year extension, but no playing him in an area he can be so woefully exposed every week. Playing Lenihan next to him is not the answer.

Williams - Not good enough as a squad player. Not reliable, too old. Has had his chance, and proved he isn't up to it.

Smallwood - Is simply not the answer. Never scores, never creates and doesnt stop enough as a holding mid. Has had his chance, and proved he isn't up to it.

Evans - See above

Bennett - Despite running about a lot, see above.

Conway - Let him go - offers nothing. Way too old now.

Nuttall - won't make it. Not good enough. Has had his chance, and proved he isn't up to it.

Graham - borderline for me? Is way too old now, and doesn't look dangerous at all. His hold up play was ok for a while, but we need a change of style for next season. Time to move him on.



Even the ones to keep -


Armstrong, - had one good month, other than that he has been ok. Nothing more nothing less. I think there is much better out there.

Dack - looks useless at the moment but has been on it earlier in the season. Mixed bag, if he stays ok, but if he went and we got good money then I'd consider that option. We could get 3 or 4 decent players in for that money. Has done almost nothing since xmas.

Brereton - Mowbray bought him, but then realised he doesn't have a clue where to play him. We would need to change system to see the best of him. Unsure if this manager is clever enough to figure out a way of changing the system to get him involved. A strange signing from the aspect, TM didn't have a clue where to play him. Which has destroyed the kid's confidence. And playing him so badly out of position, while so unconfident is really damaging.

Chapman - if he comes in and looks good, then its goodbye Armstrong. And let Rothwell go, as he will only ever play left mid anyway. And TM clearly doesn't fancy him.


While I DO think you do it the way we have, as in show faith to the same lads who got us up, he has left us too light. And well over half the squad aren't nearly good enough for this division. And the team spirit isn't what we all thought. Its all fallen apart quite badly and quickly since xmas.

This will now mean falling crowds and a complete lack of interest from players and crowd.

I'm not bothering turning out at 12 next Sat lunchtime to witness us put in another pathetic performance and lose to PNE, which we will.

[robinrover]

The big problem is turning over a huge amount of players isn't always the answer,having said that I can't really disagree too much with your above points.
We will have to be really smart with recruitment next season as with FFP they like to monitor certain teams
Sadly we are one if them.

[champs95]

Robin, its starts and ends with the town and crowd. We are going absolutely nowhere. The town is dying, its on its last legs. Nobody has money to spend on football. Its poverty stricken. One of the poorest areas in England.
Even when we where doing ok, we got awful crowds. Now we are awful, we will start getting really low crowds.
Nothing at our club is Promotion material. The manager, the players, the crowd.
The Venky's are serious, but they wont keep backing TM if its clear we are heading nowhere.
Abd we aren't improving. We are heading backwards.

[AucklandRover]

Champs, I'll get back in more detail later, but one question for now.
How would your list have looked, if this topic had come up at the end of January?

[AucklandRover]

I really don't know where to begin.
Champs, your selections actually seem to be built on the basis that Mowbray is not only useless, but a hindrance to doing well (your comments on Mulgrew, for example). That doesn't give us much common ground for agreement, but I'll have a go.
My general starting-point for our players would be their inconsistency. Armstrong and Bell are the two worst culprits, but they are not alone. Even Travis has had two poor games since he game in. I never know what to expect from any given player.

In detail:
Raya - there are clear indications that he has lost confidence since the injury. He is an excellent shot-stopper, but he does not help his defenders out enough by being decisive. I like keepers to come off the line more, even if that leads to an occasional howler. He may well get back to his best in the break, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Fisher challenging. I think Leutwiler deserves a go now, actually, but Mowbray clearly doesn't rate him. We might well be in the market in this area.
Nyambe - I still think he will come good. It doesn't help him to be playing in a defence that has lost confidence. He is a quiet lad, anyway, and it sometimes helps to have a touch of arrogance. I think he has the physical presence and footballing ability to improve. His positioning is the main issue.
Bell - so up-and-down (even within a game), it's hard to tell. He doesn't actually look like a full-back to me. Could he take over from Conway instead?
Williams - not at his best this season. Temporary blip, or just not good enough for the Championship? Left-back is definitely one position we might see some transfer-action in, although I gather Hart has been doing well at Rochdale.
Lenihan - we have missed him badly. I don't agree with this argument that he is not a "proper" centre-half.
Rodwell - I was dubious about his signing because of what happened at Sunderland, but TM has been very complimentary about his attitude, so I don't know where this rumour about him fomenting dressing-room unrest has come from. (Do you have any actual evidence for it, Champs?) All the same, I think he will probably leave. Otherwise, I suspect a new contract would have been offered by now. He looks classy on the ball, but we are more in need of a Faz at present!
Mulgrew - sad to say, he might be in decline. Of course, he could move forward, because it is hard to replace his dead-ball skills, but is he a realistic choice for midfield, given his lack of pace?

So a new centre-back in the summer? Probably, but there is an alternative, of course: any one (or two) from Wharton, Grayson, Magloire, Platt, Charley Doyle and Carter.

Smallwood and Evans - good servants, but - again - inconsistent. Travis coming through has made it even more likely that one or both will leave.
Travis - an obvious "keeper", although I think he has been a bit over-hyped. His passing has been little better than the previous two mentioned.
Davenport - I have high hopes that he and Travis can do a good job together, if TM continues to go for two "holding" players.
Bennett - still the "soul" of the team. Too versatile for his own good. (He could even fill the second defensive central midfielder spot in the short term). No way should he be released.
Reed - I don't think we'll keep him.
Conway - probably time to say goodbye. He hardly ever lets us down, but he doesn't present the same attacking threat he used to.
Rothwell - let me make a general point first. Mowbray likes to employ three attackers, which is why he has ALSO opted for the two holding players in most games. I think Rothwell would be best as a central creative player in midfield, but that is tricky in Mowbray's preferred system. The other thing is, on the evidence so far, Rothwell's passing is mediocre. Still, he deserves more chances.
Chapman and Gladwin - without them, we have had no genuine winger. Fingers crossed where Chapman is concerned. Players of his type are always a gamble. Gladwin? I have no idea!
Brereton - fingers AND toes crossed here. The big splash-out was uncharacteristic of TM (and Waggott). Next season will show us either a heartening slice of justification (and a big "Yah-Boo" from Mowbray), or the acknowledgement of a massive flop. Too early to draw conclusions yet, though.

For a moment, let's put Brereton, Armstrong, Butterworth, Samuel (and before them, Palmer and Antonsson) in one basket. What do they have in common? They all want to play in Dack's "No. 10" position. This has been a major dilemma for TM. As I said, he likes three attackers, but it has been almost impossible to drop Dack or Graham. Therefore, whoever has been given that third spot has had to play as a "wide attacker" or semi-winger. It hasn't suited most of them at all - certainly not Brereton. Armstrong has looked good there in one match; anonymous in the next. This problem has been increased by the need to have Bennett on the field too, and it isn't going to disappear. What about if Chapman and/or Rothwell start? That would surely require a different formation altogether.

Armstrong - frustrating but could be a match-winner in a team on the front foot. That's not where we are at the moment, though, and he certainly doesn't play much part in this "defending from the front" theory!
Dack - I fear we may lose him. He's hardly the most level-headed person, and I suspect his agent will already be touting. Is he PL standard? I have seen too many flops to be certain, but he does have an X-factor.
Graham - anyone's guess. There comes a moment when players of his type go downhill quite fast, though. The problem is, replacements as good as him are hard to find. I think he has been our most consistent player.
Nuttall - I suspect he's not quite good enough for the Championship. Might be a real star lower down, however.
Butterworth - a ready-made replacement for Dack? I'd love to think so. Time will tell.

Other youngsters? It's beginning to look as if Hardcastle, Mols and Rankin-Costello won't make it in midfield, but the slightly younger batch of Buckley, Evans, Vale, Paton and Lyons all appear to be excellent prospects in that area.
Up front, Mansell may not come through either, despite his earlier promise. Same with Jack Doyle and Thompson in defence.

So what might a realistic team half-way through next season look like?
(A.N. Other1)
Nyambe Lenihan A.N. Other2 A.N Other3
(Chapman/Bennett) Travis Davenport (Bell/A.N. Other4)
(Armstrong/Butterworth/Brereton/Samuel)
Graham.

In reality, I haven't got a clue, of course, but I do suspect that Rodwell, Mulgrew, Williams, Reed, Smallwood, Conway, Evans, Gladwin, Dack and Nuttall might have left. (I would personally retain Williams, but he looks doomed. I'd still like to see Gladwin in action too, before condemning him).

There it is. Idle speculation, most of it, but at least it would only require the acquisition of three or four new players (and the introduction of several youngsters, obviously). I certainly can't see Venky's agreeing to ten signings!

[robinrover]

10 signings no and is 10 really required
Fulham is a prime example
Huge amount of players coming in and it caused disruption
Certainly need to be looking at 6-7 with a big defensive overall.

[Despair]

Blimey thats a hell of a lot of in depth analysis put forward. Something i certainly could not join into.
One only : Dack Prem std? I’m non too sure, an if pressed I’d say no.

As for our Pre vs post turn of year performance, i’ll just pose this question:
Pre there were suggestions we could recruit so just maybe all were looking after their positions. Window closes therefore no immediate threat, therefore foot / feet off gas and cruise to end of season. ?
I only ponder this thought based upon what is seen and reported from Champs.
That points the finger at the calibre of the squad generally , an also at the manager in his man management capabilities.
Hes maybe been too easy going on his Lg 1 successful squad in giving them too much leeway in continuing their good run thro this Champs season without fully considering the what ifs. Yes on reflection his release of Downing would seem a mistake but as said most opinion was ‘ not up to Champs std . An DL’s injury is well a unfortunate catalyst.
Great thing is hindsight , if we all had the magical foresight we’d all be multimillionaires etc.
Oh well, he and they (the squad) are highly paid professionals an im sure they’ll survive, no matter what 😏 .

[champs95]

Champs, I'll get back in more detail later, but one question for now.
How would your list have looked, if this topic had come up at the end of January?

But a season is never based on what happens up to Jan? You have to look at the season as a whole. In Jan it was clear there was nothing to fear in this league. It was evident that it was devoid of any real class. We had played everyone, and never really got soundly beaten (apart from Sheff Utd at home)
I will answer the question. If you had asked me this in Jan, you would've got a different answer.
So why in March has it gone so painfully wrong? We have conceded more goals in that time since, than any other club in any other division in the Top 4 leagues in England. Just think how many crap sides we have overtaken to be crap??!! That's some fall from grace. From a side seriously challenging and very close to the play offs, to a side conceding more goals than any other club.

You cant ignore that.

Travis, he is the most overrated player in the club. He looked the part, but he is not a good footballer, with a footballing brain, not at this part of his career, He will have to massively improve. He doesn't appear to be being coached very well? Or he doesn't listen. He has put in more crap performances than good ones. I am very unsure about him. A lad called Longstaff came into Newcastle's side at the same point Travis came into ours. He looks such a better player. He is clearly being coached well. He is getting better every week aswell. same age, same position, same type of player. Ours seems miles behind.

I always think a core of a team (to build around) needs to be strong. Raya, Nyambe, Bell, Lenihan, Travis are our future players. Only one of those I would trust in a battle, and that's Lenihan, who himself has been responsible for quite a few goals.
We almost need a whole new team. Then that whole new team will need time to intergrate. And that alone has its own risks.
And doing all that in one window is also a massive risk. I feel he has put himself under bigger pressure than he needed to. Money was available last summer. And in Jan. He chose not to spend any, apart from on a 19 year old kid, who he didn't know where to play.

[AucklandRover]

Champs - that last sentence is plain wrong. TM knows exactly where to play Brereton, but he would have to drop Dack to put him there. The same has been true for Armstrong, Samuel, Palmer and Antonsson, and it would also be the case for Butterworth.
I can see actually trying 4-3-2-1, with twin No. 10s, but that creates knock-on issues in midfield, especially if we want a wide player as well.
If Dack goes in the summer, we will probably see a fairly major re-jig.