Big Day in Parliament

[sinkov]

Some of what May wants us to sign up to 59, this is the sort of detail she doesn't want you to know.

"The Agreement gives the EU a veto on UK withdrawal. If the current Withdrawal Agreement is passed into law, the UK cannot unilaterally withdraw from the Agreement. The EU can keep us in forever by refusing to revise the Agreement."

This is worse than being in the EU, because if we stay in we always have the option of applying to leave under A50 again.

"It makes us a rule-taker in almost all areas of EU competence. Should it be agreed, Parliament would effectively be forced to accept, apply and obey whatever regulations the EU proposed and be bound by all rulings by the European Court of Justice. Contrary to the Prime Minister’s Lancaster House speech and manifesto pledge, the European Court of Justice retains de facto primacy over the UK, remaining the final arbiter of the Agreement and of the EU laws that affect us."

"The Agreement requires us to keep in regulatory alignment with the EU on matters such as agriculture subsidies and tax policy. This would effectively give the EU control over the UK’s economic policy. The UK would not be able to lower taxes and increase subsidies where necessary to ***** parts of our economy."

"We would be listed as a ‘participating state’ within the EU’s Civil Protection Mechanism, paving the way for us to having to contribute money to any Eurozone bailout. (The EU Civil Protection Mechanism was how we were forced into giving the Eurozone money after the 2008 economic crash.)"

"The Agreement stipulates the ECJ and the European Commission would be able to set the legal levels of our financial contributions to fund EU bodies which the Agreement commits us to be part of. In effect we would be handing the EU a blank cheque."

"The Agreement commits us to contribute towards funding and supplying our troops for any future EU military operations and commits us to sharing sensitive intelligence data with the EU after Brexit."

"The Agreement includes future negotiations on the Common Fisheries Policy (at the last minute and against all promises to the contrary) in the transition period the May government has guaranteed that access to UK fishing grounds will become a bargaining chip to be traded away, as President Macron confirmed immediately after the Withdrawal Agreement was signed."


"It hands Brussels 100% control of our trade and customs policy and precludes the UK’s right to sign trade deals with the rest of the world. When the EU signs a trade agreement with another country (for example, China), we would be compelled to make all the concessions agreed to by the EU, but China would only need to offer its concessions to the EU 27, not to the UK. In other words, we will have become the EU’s expendable bargaining chip in negotiations."

"the Agreement will strip Northern Ireland of the ability to control and decide its own constitutional status – a right enshrined in the Good Friday Agreement. Northern Ireland will be treated separately to the rest of the UK, and become a rule-taker in areas such as goods, agricultural products and VAT."

Those are just a few of the other problems with the WA besides the backstop, any idea that we somehow risk losing Brexit if we don't sign up to this is a nonsense, this isn't Brexit, and it's worse than staying in the EU. At least our politicians are getting something right, when they tell May to stuff this document up her backside.

[1959_60]

But Sinkov, what is described there would happen during the implement period only - until we have sorted the final deal out.

But - the problem with the final deal is finding a solution to the Irish border. If that were not an issue then everything else would be plain sailing.

Solve the Irish border issue and all your wishes would be granted.

And how would leaving without a deal solve the Irish border issue? I can only think of staying in a customs union and retaining single market access (Jeremys deal for instance) but that would, as you say, leave us in a much worse state than we are now. Rule takers without any say in them etc.

It's a conundrum for Leavers....

[sinkov]

But Sinkov, what is described there would happen during the implement period only - until we have sorted the final deal out.

A free trade deal sorts out the border problem 59, and this could have been negotiated alongside the WA, but the EU decided that wouldn't happen, and May didn't argue with that arbritary decision of the EU's, and thus arose the completely avoidable Irish border problem. Come into my parlour, said the spider to the fly, and Mrs May walked right in, but that's possibly unfair on her, possibly she knew exactly what she was doing, she is a Remainer after all.

But you do hit the nail right on the head, we're trapped into the WA, effectively the EU, with no means of exiting for at least two years and until we can finalise a trade deal. And being effectively trapped in the EU, with all it's obligations but no say on any decisions taken, suits the EU just fine doesn't it. Why would they see any need to finalise a trade deal, except one with conditions advantageous to them and onerous for us. Macron has already said he wants a share of our fishing grounds before he would contemplate ratifying any trade deal, so that's our fisherman sold down the river yet again, Spain can, and will, get stroppy over Gibraltar, the difficulties are huge, the leverage all on the side of the EU, and there is absolutely nothing we will be able to do about it.

As Sabine Weyand was overheard to say, as Mrs May signed up to this document, "We've got them right where we want them now". Come into my parlour, said the spider to the fly.

[sinkov]

The person I feel sorry for right now is my old friend Sir Nigel of Farage. He said last week that should the Tories fail to deliver on Brexit , which they won't, he would return to front line politics with his Brexit Party and tear the Tories limb from limb. Poor Nigel, he's going to be so disappointed, there won't be a Tory Party to tear limb from limb, Mrs May is doing the job for him.

[The Bedlington Terrier]

Do you remember way back when I sad we would eventually end up with a Customs Union, access to the Single Market and freedom of movement? It really couldn't be anything else - could it?

[ClaretinBudapest]

We should all be grateful to the MP`s in the House Of Commons for confirming what I and a lot of people knew a long time ago that democracy is and was a fallacy in the UK.Labour and Conservative were perfectly described by George Galloway as two cheeks of the same bum.
It does not matter who you vote for you are going to get screwed.

[1959_60]

"A free trade deal sorts out the border problem 59, and this could have been negotiated alongside the WA, but the EU decided that wouldn't happen, and May didn't argue with that arbritary decision of the EU's, and thus arose the completely avoidable Irish border problem."

And that's the nub of the problem Sinkov.

How do we solve the Irish border problem without a backstop? What form of trading agreement could do this?
Theresa (and you) have ruled out a customs union/single market thingy, although she is talking to Jeremy about one now.

I cannot see how the backstop can be removed without some form of customs union/single market access.

A technological solution is obviously not available at the moment. If it was then surely we would use it on all our borders - not just Ireland?

[sinkov]

"A free trade deal sorts out the border problem 59, and this could have been negotiated alongside the WA, but the EU decided that wouldn't happen, and May didn't argue with that arbritary decision of the EU's, and thus arose the completely avoidable Irish border problem."

And that's the nub of the problem Sinkov.

How do we solve the Irish border problem without a backstop? What form of trading agreement could do this?
Theresa (and you) have ruled out a customs union/single market thingy, although she is talking to Jeremy about one now.

I cannot see how the backstop can be removed without some form of customs union/single market access.

A technological solution is obviously not available at the moment. If it was then surely we would use it on all our borders - not just Ireland?

Barnier and that Irish chap were discussing the border last week, in case of no deal. They seemed to have some sort of plan for that event, although I'm not sure precisely what it was. They both agreed though that there would not be a hard border. So if the Republic and the EU are agreed there won't be a hard border in the event of no deal, they obviously have a solution in mind. Just a shame they don't let us in on it eh.

[sinkov]

It's looking more and more like a long extension and we partake in the Euro elections. I'm warming to this idea, me and Nigel both are rubbing our hands. They'll be glad to see the back of us before this is all over.

[1959_60]

Aye Sinkov. I picked that up as well.

What they appear to be saying is that they would rather have an open border and allow trade to continue as it does now, even though we will no longer be in the EU, than to impose a hard border. That is just another recipe for total chaos and plenty of dodgy deals without any checks.

Not ideal for either side, eh?