Big Day in Parliament

[1959_60]

Given the state of both teams, even though they are (ahem) on the same side, I still reckon it will still be a goalless draw.

Let the people decide this once and for all.

[1959_60]

What do you think of my preferred way forward 59, stop all the playing silly buggers, let's settle it once and for all, a free vote in Parliament, leave without a WA or revoke Article 50. Then we know where we stand and we can all get on with our lives without this bloody farce dragging on into the indefinite future.

I really wouldn't mind which way the vote went, if we were out I'd be happy, if we stayed in my sense of mischief would be looking forward to the Euro elections, with Nigel's Brexit party up and running and 17.4 million people with no one else to vote for. We could revoke A50 and then start to destroy the EU from within with our Brexit Party MEPs. I'd like that.

You are nearly there Sinkov...but I think that The People should referee this one. After nearly three years of pissing about Parliament has shown us that it is incapable of making a decision.

[Norder]

Was I hearing right ? Has Theresa just appeared on the steps of 10 Downing St and said 'I have decided to kick the can a bit further down the road. I have decided to invite Mr Corbyn to have a kick as well.'

Or was I mistaken ?

Act xi.....asking someone even more lost than her - to help with directions - doesn't look good - but can at least pass some of the blame for where it ends up..... .

[sinkov]

You are nearly there Sinkov...but I think that The People should referee this one. After nearly three years of pissing about Parliament has shown us that it is incapable of making a decision.

The people have already made a decision 59, they voted to leave the EU, but our MPs didn't like that decision and decided it wasn't going to happen. Remainer MPs have taken control of the process, they are now directing this pantomime, it's up to them to sort it out now, this is what they wanted. They can stop Brexit if they want, they can revoke A50, they don't need a 2nd referendum, but the problem is that they haven't really got the courage of their convictions, they want to stop Brexit, but they don't want the responsibility of overturning the referendum result, they want the electorate to be responsible for the decision. There are enough of them, they could revoke Article 50, but they frightened of the consequences, cowards really, all wind and piss, as Mrs T would have said, they're frit.

But I do exempt your lot 59, they have been quite open about their duplicity and contempt for democracy all along. I just find it bizarre that people who think that referendum results can be ignored and overturned on a whim, think that another referendum can have any validity and provide a solution. How does that work ?

[The Bedlington Terrier]

If Cameron had respected democracy and gone with constituency seats on the vote in the same way we elect these cretins, around 400 constituencies would have voted LEAVE with around 200 voting to REMAIN.
The bulk of the Remainer constituencies are unsurprisingly in the South East of England and proves yet again the Metropolitan elite really do not give a flying fhuck about the Northern Powerhouse Tribes, living in the frozen tundra north of Watford.

[Balanbam00]

......''but I think that The People should referee this one. ''


Every party issues its own election manifesto to influence the people in order to carry the laurels in the ensuing election battle. Besides, different parties entice the voters through election propaganda. Where educated people are in the majority and political consciousness is adequate, it is not very difficult for people to weigh the pros and cons of the manifesto of a particular party and to ascertain what is in the best interests of the people. But where there is a dearth of education and political consciousness, and where people fail to understand the reality of the manifesto and are misled by wrong propaganda, they cast their ballots in favour of parties whose ideals go contrary to the social interest. Consequently, parties that go against the interests of the people are installed in power.

Democracy cannot succeed in countries where people are illiterate, immoral, or backward.

[1959_60]

The people have already made a decision 59, they voted to leave the EU, but our MPs didn't like that decision and decided it wasn't going to happen. Remainer MPs have taken control of the process, they are now directing this pantomime, it's up to them to sort it out now, this is what they wanted. They can stop Brexit if they want, they can revoke A50, they don't need a 2nd referendum, but the problem is that they haven't really got the courage of their convictions, they want to stop Brexit, but they don't want the responsibility of overturning the referendum result, they want the electorate to be responsible for the decision. There are enough of them, they could revoke Article 50, but they frightened of the consequences, cowards really, all wind and piss, as Mrs T would have said, they're frit.

But I do exempt your lot 59, they have been quite open about their duplicity and contempt for democracy all along. I just find it bizarre that people who think that referendum results can be ignored and overturned on a whim, think that another referendum can have any validity and provide a solution. How does that work ?

Brexiteers understandably get upset when they are told "You didn't know what Brexit would look like". Every Brexiteer had their own personal version of Brexit that they wished to happen, including your good self Sinkov.
Some just wanted a complete and immediate exit from the EU, others expected, and were promised, "The same benefits as staying in the EU but also able to do deals with the rest of the world without paying a penny". And lot's of other versions of Brexit as well.

Imagine that you were the Prime Minister in 2016 Sinkov and you had to produce a version of Brexit that kept everyone happy.
Whichever model you put forward simply couldn't provide a majority in Parliament, or in the country I'll wager.

Given this fact what would you do? You would negotiate the best deal you could, knowing that it was not what most people imagined it would be like.
Do you then try to force the deal on the people? Surely it is best to explain that this is the reality of brexit - do you support it? Remember, it is three years down the line and a lot of people may have changed their minds, or be unhappy with the version of Brexit on offer.
As David Davies famously said, "If a democracy cannot change it's mind then it ceases to be a democracy"

Personally I would have three options on the ballot. Sinkov's deal, no deal or remain. To use AV for the vote so that the leave options are not split.

Imagine you see an advert for a part in a Long John Silver film paying £2000 per week. You apply and get the job.
Next day you are told that you will have to have your leg amputated. Would you, and should you, have the chance to change your mind and revoke your decision?

[Supersub6]

I think that Theresa May made a big mistake when she became PM and was left to deal with the vote to leave. She should have appointed an all-party commission to thrash out the ideas from all sides and insist that the will of the voters was to leave and that they should work together to achieve this aim.
The fact that this did not happen has led to the shambles which we have experienced for almost three years and which is still a vehicle for politicians of all parties to use for their own benefit.
United we stand --divided we fall!

[sinkov]

"Brexiteers understandably get upset when they are told "You didn't know what Brexit would look like". Every Brexiteer had their own personal version of Brexit that they wished to happen, including your good self Sinkov.
Some just wanted a complete and immediate exit from the EU, others expected, and were promised, "The same benefits as staying in the EU but also able to do deals with the rest of the world without paying a penny". And lot's of other versions of Brexit as well."

I disagree with your basic premise 59, everyone I know of had the same basic idea of what leaving the EU would entail. I know it's going over old ground but very quickly it was encapsulated in May's Lancaster House speech,

End jurisdiction of ECJ in Britain,
Regain control of our own borders,
Negotiate free trade agreement with EU,
Leave single market and customs union thus ensuring freedom to strike our own trade deals with other countries,
Out of the C.A.P.
Take back control of our fishing grounds.

I doubt you'll find any Leave voters who would disagree that that basically was the Brexit they voted for and expected to be delivered. I think what you are now mistaking for your many versions of Brexit are actually the many and various Brinos, masquerading as Brexit, but which aren't Brexit at all, and these are what our politicians can't agree on, and the May WA is a fine example of a Brino that leaves us in a far worse situation than remaining in the EU.

I was amused to hear a LibDem MP on the DP yesterday say that the problem is being caused by May's refusal to compromise. I wonder just where she has been for the last two years. Remember No Deal is Better then a Bad Deal ? Now she won't contemplate no deal, that's one huge compromise, look at the Lancaster House speech, virtually none of it guaranteed under her WA, it's been one long succession of compromises on her side to get us to this current sorry state. I have no time for May at all, but to claim she hasn't compromised is plainly ludicrous.

You're fond of analogies 59, try this one. I suggest me and you have a day out in Scarborough, no need for a map or SatNav, I know the way there. I arrive at your house to pick you up and you say we can go in your car and you'll drive, but first you want me to have a look in the boot. I peer in and you bundle me inside and slam the lid down, two hours later you let me out, I look around and guess what, we're not in Scarborough, we're in Colwyn Bay. Does this mean it was never possible for us to have had our day out in Scarborough ? And so it is with Brexit, we're in Colwyn Bay, not Scarborough.

[footy_le_bordel]

I know it's going over old ground but very quickly it was encapsulated in May's Lancaster House speech:

Leave single market and customs union thus ensuring freedom to strike our own trade deals with other countries

I doubt you'll find any Leave voters who would disagree that that basically was the Brexit they voted for and expected to be delivered.

these leavers might...