OT: The ultimate hypocrite. DON'T READ IF OFFENDED BY POLITICAL FREDS

[frenchmagpie]

French - It would have made more sense to have not had a Pro-Remainer appointed PM responsible for over seeing Brexit negotiations. This still sits funny with me, like there was never any appetite for it to go through from the start....I still think we won’t leave.

But she has become ultra-leave and look at the ministers actually in charge of the process - Davies, Raab, Barclay, Fox etc. Hardly remainers. It has just proved a suicidal process. But if people want to vote for that knowing all the facts we should agree with that. But these facts were clearly not known in 2016. So have a confirmation vote - knowing all the facts do you still want to leave ? I just cannot see how that isn't democratic.
Those saying we had a vote fine we did. But this is another different vote. If you still agree to leave what's the problem, just tick the box.
Anyone who has changed their mind faced with what they know should be allowed to say no thanks. Why not ?! I still go back to - if it is such a terrific idea then any second vote will be won by a landslide won't it ? And remainers will have no grounds for saying it was based on unknown information. Job done.

[Elite_Pie]

We can only leave it to our democratically elected masters in parliament.

Thanks, that's really reassuring.

[seriouspie]

Thanks, that's really reassuring.

No need for possible sarcasm boy ....... it was meant in the context of whatever party should be in power.

[Elite_Pie]

No need for possible sarcasm boy ....... it was meant in the context of whatever party should be in power.

I realise that, it just reminded me of a comment I made before the vote had even taken place. One of the big, grand buzzphrases back then was "let's take control of our own destiny". I did warn that control would be in the hands of an incompetent and hopelessly divided Conservative government, with no opposition worthy of the name.

[seriouspie]

I realise that, it just reminded me of a comment I made before the vote had even taken place. One of the big, grand buzzphrases back then was "let's take control of our own destiny". I did warn that control would be in the hands of an incompetent and hopelessly divided Conservative government, with no opposition worthy of the name.

In fairness you did and no argument from me.

Whatever happens I don't feel the end result will alter my life .... and I expect it's the same with you. We have both finished our working lives to feel reasonably financially secure and hope to keep in good enough health to be able to enjoy what we have worked for. Opinions on the future for the younger generation is another debate.

Whatever the outcome I will not be voting in any future GE as I cannot see elected politicians ever changing their ways. Weakness and any signs of statesmanship are rife ...... so I take the selfish view of what I've worked for is mine and I'm alright Jack! Having said that, if there's a deserving cause to donate to that I feel I can afford, then I do ..... and have organised events to prove this.

I also grieve the demise of our great manufacturing businesses which gave young people a purpose in life although any business has to fold if demand falls for it's products. It is natural a country of some 64 million people will have varying views on politics and competition is healthy in any democratic society but I do feel on this, the biggest issue I can remember, we have all been let down.

Funnily enough I would support Transport, Water and Power being under government control if proved eventually economically sound and (howls of protest) I would say frack and f'cum! If we could excavate hundreds of mines without today's technology and cause little in the way of earthquakes and water contamination, surely we can overcome this objection and provide many secure jobs and also eliminate the so called Co2 threat.

We shall have to wait and see.

[jackal2]

You can come up with as many analogies as you like(and I have to say coming off heroin is a new one) but Brexit isn’t a short term process, where you get through it with difficulty but then find yourself a free country. It’ll be ongoing with trade talks going on with our closest neighbours for years and years. Whatever the reasons, the EU have run rings around the UK for the last 3 years, and are deciding on our pleas for extension right now. The US, China, and the other Asian countries are desperate to run rings around us as well. This isn’t Project Fear, it’s what happens when the stronger sit down to negotiate with the weaker.

What makes you think any of that will change in the next few years?

I can't speak for other Leave voters, but I was never under any illusion that the process of extricating ourselves from a system we've been tied into for 40 years would be smooth or short-term. One of my reasons for voting leave is that the EU has become something of an economic and political straitjacket for the countries within it, which was not what people voted for when the UK first joined the Common Market.

There have been a few outlandish predictions of eternal purgatory which do constitute Project Fear and are as daft as the '£350 million for the NHS' claims that came from the more excitable parts of the Leave campaign. However, I wouldn't dispute that it will take a significant period of time to untie ourselves from the EU mechanism and then negotiate the full range trade deals we want with countries around the world. That's just part and parcel of the decision to change course.

It's true that the US and China can negotiate from a position of strength with any smaller country, but they frequently have the advantage when negotiating with the EU block too, because the US and Chinese Governments don't have to please or compromise with 27 internal, separate units to reach a negotiating position.

The UK economy will have to adjust to operating independently again after 4 decades, but the situation will stabilise and we will adapt. Some of the folk giving dire warnings of how weak we will be without the financial and political power of the EU are the same ones who argue against curtailing public sector spending on the grounds that "the UK is one of the largest economies in the world", so they can't have it both ways. We will be able to negotiate deals without restrictions with pretty much any country outside the EU, and the reality is that we will still have a larger and stronger economy than many.

[navypie]

I can't speak for other Leave voters, but I was never under any illusion that the process of extricating ourselves from a system we've been tied into for 40 years would be smooth or short-term. One of my reasons for voting leave is that the EU has become something of an economic and political straitjacket for the countries within it, which was not what people voted for when the UK first joined the Common Market.

There have been a few outlandish predictions of eternal purgatory which do constitute Project Fear and are as daft as the '£350 million for the NHS' claims that came from the more excitable parts of the Leave campaign. However, I wouldn't dispute that it will take a significant period of time to untie ourselves from the EU mechanism and then negotiate the full range trade deals we want with countries around the world. That's just part and parcel of the decision to change course.

It's true that the US and China can negotiate from a position of strength with any smaller country, but they frequently have the advantage when negotiating with the EU block too, because the US and Chinese Governments don't have to please or compromise with 27 internal, separate units to reach a negotiating position.

The UK economy will have to adjust to operating independently again after 4 decades, but the situation will stabilise and we will adapt. Some of the folk giving dire warnings of how weak we will be without the financial and political power of the EU are the same ones who argue against curtailing public sector spending on the grounds that "the UK is one of the largest economies in the world", so they can't have it both ways. We will be able to negotiate deals without restrictions with pretty much any country outside the EU, and the reality is that we will still have a larger and stronger economy than many.

Not now jackal.

[jackal2]

Not now jackal.

I was just employing some distraction therapy!

Actually, we could have a series of indicative votes on what the team for Stevenage should be...

[navypie]

I was just employing some distraction therapy!

Actually, we could have a series of indicative votes on what the team for Stevenage should be...

I know you were mate. Stevenage. Ozzie for our out of form( if he ever had any) Dutch winger.

[forwardmagpie]

I can't speak for other Leave voters, but I was never under any illusion that the process of extricating ourselves from a system we've been tied into for 40 years would be smooth or short-term. One of my reasons for voting leave is that the EU has become something of an economic and political straitjacket for the countries within it, which was not what people voted for when the UK first joined the Common Market.

There have been a few outlandish predictions of eternal purgatory which do constitute Project Fear and are as daft as the '£350 million for the NHS' claims that came from the more excitable parts of the Leave campaign. However, I wouldn't dispute that it will take a significant period of time to untie ourselves from the EU mechanism and then negotiate the full range trade deals we want with countries around the world. That's just part and parcel of the decision to change course.

It's true that the US and China can negotiate from a position of strength with any smaller country, but they frequently have the advantage when negotiating with the EU block too, because the US and Chinese Governments don't have to please or compromise with 27 internal, separate units to reach a negotiating position.

The UK economy will have to adjust to operating independently again after 4 decades, but the situation will stabilise and we will adapt. Some of the folk giving dire warnings of how weak we will be without the financial and political power of the EU are the same ones who argue against curtailing public sector spending on the grounds that "the UK is one of the largest economies in the world", so they can't have it both ways. We will be able to negotiate deals without restrictions with pretty much any country outside the EU, and the reality is that we will still have a larger and stronger economy than many.

No illusions here either, I voted out of the EU not half out.