A strange old week ........

[champs95]

And finally, this news of our debt over the last 12 months simply cant be ignored. Bolton are in serious trouble. Birmingham have been deducted points. We have managed to rack up more debt than both. So does this mean we will be looking at points deduction next season? We wont get many points next season as it is, if everything stays the same within the club. Which is looking likely. So imagine taking 9 or 12 points away? We would end up being bottom.
When you think of how much we spent last season? And how much we have risked financially getting back to here, why oh why have we ended up being so bad? We aren't half as bad as Bolton. But then we have spent more. We aren't as bad as Rotherham or Wigan, but then again we are hugely in-debt. Wigan are in trouble with £7.7m debt. We have double that amount of debt. And are a just a few places higher. Not the other end of the table, to warrant that massive debt. Not anywhere near where Birmingham where before the points deduction. 11 points away from being relegated. Are we looking at a transfer ban next season? That will be fun.

None of this makes good reading, both on or off the pitch. Worrying times ahead. Which looking back to last summer, I didn't think, or forsee we would be in this much trouble. And that is the main disappointment. I always thought we would bed in this season, and finish around midtable. Blood some youngsters, and kick on next season. And have a serious go at trying to get up. Not because I demand that, because we pay of crippling debts. And the realisation we are miles away from that, is disappointing. To think we will spend money in the summer, we just don't have, is crazy. Which leaves us in a perilous position.

And I assume someone at our club (that I was under the impression was being run well??) who on earth sanctioned the deal for Brereton? That was absolute madness. Yes I get all transfers are risky. And i realise that a high % dont work out. But what a risk that was. Our entire budget on a lad who had played 2 or 3 first team games. When we already knew we had a pretty average squad. I have remained quiet on this debacle. As I feel sorry for the lad. Its not his fault. But my god, has that deal put us in the mire. We desperately needed some Champ experience. What we are ALL now saying we are desperate for. And we spent that luxury on a kid, who doesn't play. And is shot confidence wise. Left dangling in the wind by a manager, who has pretty much ruined him.

[champs95]

Sorry for yet another post. But I just wanted to add, this news we are heavily in debt again, is really bad news. And I think is the last thing I will say on the matter as a whole. We DO have money. Venkys are cash rich to a ridiculous level. Probably to the point they can (and will) write off our massive debt to them? That could well be their last act. Thanks but no thanks, we wont bill you the £116m debt owed, because we made mistakes too. But all the same, we aren't welcome, and we aren't investing anymore. Because the club is just never going to grow. That day will come. Maybe in the summer? Maybe next summer? Maybe in 2 years? They wont stay here much longer pumping in millions at a loss.

We have bags of money, but absolutely no way of spending it. Every home game, we make a huge loss. Everytime we pay a player, we are making a huge loss. Every young player who comes through, we are making a loss.
I thi9nk that is exactly where we are. That's a double whammy. Things are terrible on the pitch, but we sold ourselves this notion we will spend money in the summer, to correct it. No chance, if we spend a penny I think we are looking seriously into a points deduction, or a transfer ban. Its only really starting to come out what a mess we are actually in financially. But the crucial bit, trying to get extra fans in, is also not likely to happen. We have lost fans this season, not gained them.

[AucklandRover]

Whew! Champs - I totally accept what you say about the differences between my kind of support and yours.
All the same, I keep coming back to the fact that you are exaggerating the problems.
After the Hull match, everything looked fine and dandy. Since then, we have had a very poor run, with seven defeats, one draw and one victory. However, three of the defeats were nil-one losses to top-eight teams. During that time we have also been severely hit by injuries to several experienced defenders.
Countering the disappointments, we have seen encouraging debuts by two Academy graduates - two from what is definitely the most promising and talented cohort of youngsters the Club has ever produced.
We reached an artificially high position with, basically, our D.1 squad, but we have a core that can easily be built on (the group I listed in earlier post).
As for money, it is guesswork - as always with Venky's - but there is no sign of them doing a runner. The debt is peanuts, compared to their overall wealth.
And effort? I think you are being unfair. I have not seen a single game where I thought the players weren't trying. A lack of confidence - yes; and, in some cases, a dramatic falling away of form. Those aren't the same thing as throwing in the towel.
Finally, you have still failed to acknowledge that other teams have had similar runs in the period being considered. It doesn't make sense to consider us in isolation.
For me, the last six or seven weeks have been chastening, but I just don't see the end-of-the-Rovers'-footballing-world scenario you are picturing.

[champs95]

Whew! Champs - I totally accept what you say about the differences between my kind of support and yours.
All the same, I keep coming back to the fact that you are exaggerating the problems.
After the Hull match, everything looked fine and dandy. Since then, we have had a very poor run, with seven defeats, one draw and one victory. However, three of the defeats were nil-one losses to top-eight teams. During that time we have also been severely hit by injuries to several experienced defenders.
Countering the disappointments, we have seen encouraging debuts by two Academy graduates - two from what is definitely the most promising and talented cohort of youngsters the Club has ever produced.
We reached an artificially high position with, basically, our D.1 squad, but we have a core that can easily be built on (the group I listed in earlier post).
As for money, it is guesswork - as always with Venky's - but there is no sign of them doing a runner. The debt is peanuts, compared to their overall wealth.
And effort? I think you are being unfair. I have not seen a single game where I thought the players weren't trying. A lack of confidence - yes; and, in some cases, a dramatic falling away of form. Those aren't the same thing as throwing in the towel.
Finally, you have still failed to acknowledge that other teams have had similar runs in the period being considered. It doesn't make sense to consider us in isolation.
For me, the last six or seven weeks have been chastening, but I just don't see the end-of-the-Rovers'-footballing-world scenario you are picturing.

Thanks for the response Auks. You must be getting exhausted with me at the moment? Your calming influence is always welcome. I was only mentioning how we react (differently) to get across how I am seeing things, which will have an influence overall. I am certainly not arrogant enough to say my view is the only view, and that's that! I'm not even willing to listen. How I am feeling, is purley down to Sat after Sat, looking forward to a game, and coming away completely deflated. The results have been tough to take, all at once.
You have tried in so many ways to try stay positive about this. Some where vrs decent sides, where we played ok, and lost by one goal, rather unluckily. Some games we just didn't play well, and lost. That happens, its football.
I appear to have forgotten some of the things I have maintained all season. We played in Div1 last season. Some of the sides we are around, played in the Prem, and have spent a fortune. You have spent weeks trying to remind me of these things. That was a great point you made yesterday, Stoke have about the same points, who has had the better season? While its almost impossible for me to just forget how poor we have been of late, its also very easy to forget which division we came from. And we are by far, going to finish the highest of the 3 promoted sides.
Its great that we have this young exciting crop of youngsters all coming through. And blooding so many this season, can only be good for our future.

Equally, I am also not carrying on spending lots of money going to Villa on Sat Aucks. You can understand my reasons? I just think I need to take a step back. We are on a bad run, that we can all agree on? And without being too hysterical, it shows no real signs of letting up. I do think we will probably pick up a few results before the season is out. Then its just a simple case of wait and see. It appears we need wholesale changes, but as you say, you think the squad only requires a few tweaks, and can easily be upgraded. I can see that myself, deep down, I guess I'm just a miffed.
Last season, and this, you always remained calm. While I insisted TM was the greatest living manager. And now things have gone wrong, for various reasons, I have moved to him being crap. And you just wont get you head around that change of mind-set from me. You must think I am a fruit-cake? I cant really argue with that, and I don't know what else to do, other than take a step back. If I went to Villa on Sat, I would spend quite a lot of money. Take a full day travelling down, then back. And spending money on the day out. If we lost badly, again, I would just feel really deflated. I cant hide that fact, and I wont lie. I sit and and slate players at the game. I go, I cheer them on, I keep my own thoughts to my self, because I don't believe you should go to a game and slate your own players, no matter what. But I do end up feeling a bit let down. I did after Sheff Wed and Rotherham away recently. And I wondered why I bothered?

I just want this season to end, the sooner the better. And I am just willing to take a step back over summer, and simply see what happens. It sint as bad as I am making out, its nowhere near as good as I thought it was earlier in the season. Its probably somewhere in between. You have been trying to point out the rest of the sides in this division, some of which are on a worse, or equally bad a run, as us.

I am sorry if I have exhausted your patience Auks. I have turned into one of these LET idiots, that we all hate so much. And you probably thought more about me than that, you probably gave me more credit.

[robinrover]

Being realistic
Just how many decent championship players do we need to need to go from mediocre to play off/promotion candidates?
In my opinion it's about 7
Sadly most of that number is defensively.
I will be intrigued in the summer just what our budget is
Thankfully we have a level headed and decent man in steve waggot at the helm he won't allow us to blow the hard work getting us back to where we are
Yes financially it isn't great But the bottom line is venkys are keeping us afloat and don't look to be going anywhere soon
As long as we comply with FFP then that's all that matters for the here and now.

[AucklandRover]

Champs- it's a hell of a lot easier when you're as far away as I am!
Also, watching alone on tv just doesn't lead to the same emotional involvement I used to get following the team around.

[AucklandRover]

Being realistic
Just how many decent championship players do we need to need to go from mediocre to play off/promotion candidates?
In my opinion it's about 7
Sadly most of that number is defensively.
I will be intrigued in the summer just what our budget is
Thankfully we have a level headed and decent man in steve waggot at the helm he won't allow us to blow the hard work getting us back to where we are
Yes financially it isn't great But the bottom line is venkys are keeping us afloat and don't look to be going anywhere soon
As long as we comply with FFP then that's all that matters for the here and now.

Robin - optimist that I am with Rovers(!), I think four new players might be enough.
This is on the basis that we have such a promising group of youngsters, I'm confident at least two more will come through in the next six months, in addition to Magloire and Buckley.
That is, at least two from Wharton, Platt, Grayson, Hart, Thompson, Rankin-Costello and Butterworth. (There are five defenders there.) I've left quite a few other possibles out.
On top of that, I expect Rothwell, Chapman and Davenport to establish themselves.
If we can get two defenders, a play-maker, and back-up for Graham, I think we'll be all right.

[robinrover]

I do admire your optimism aucks but the defending recently is woefully bad and in need of looking at urgently
I like magloire,but he was left to almost fend for himself last game by the so called professionals around him.
A fresh back 4 will hopefully do the trick next season.
Nyambe is good going forward but doing the basics in defence sometimes passes him by.
Rodwell looks to be gone
Mulgrew Thankyou but goodbye
Downing looks to be gone
Lenihan good but he isn't a centre back by trade.
Magloire bright future alongside someone who can defend.
Williams on the slope downwards now finds the simple things tricky.
Bell is the same as nyambe,both good to keep as back up,but the majority of goals have come from crosses not snuffed out by the full backs.

[champs95]

Champs- it's a hell of a lot easier when you're as far away as I am!
Also, watching alone on tv just doesn't lead to the same emotional involvement I used to get following the team around.

Equally mate, I do get swept up in it all. I clearly got too carried away earlier in the season. You did, to be fair, try to calm me down. And its also a fair point to say, had we got results spread out of the whole season, rather than a good run, followed by a bad run, then this wouldn't seem the issue it does. We are going to stay up with ease, quite a few clubs, including the 2 we came up with, would desperately want to change places with us. I think you could be correct about how many new players we actually need.
This Bauer who we had been interested in, is out of contract in the summer. And we sound to be closing in very quickly on that. I think we may well try and get our business done early, let go who needs to go, and get in who we need, to give us a whole summer of bedding in together.

[AucklandRover]

I hope this Bauer is the real deal. There has been a lot of talk about him over the last 18 months, so it is important he really does fill the gap we have.