o/t the problem with equality and diversity

[Exiletyke]

I'd say keep your celebrations to a modest level or keep out of the boozer

Are you even aware that we have 'British pubs' in Spain? Where the whole pub supports England in such games? Are you proposing saying this to the whole pub? Good luck with that!

Imagine having Pakistani pubs in the UK where the whole notion of "Pakistani-ness" is celebrated, just as we have British pubs in Spain and across the med?

Maybe this is being taken too seriously?[/QUOTE]

I would wager that I have been to Spain more than you have had hot dinners
Of course I'm aware that that there are "British pubs" in Spain
Just to clarify my position Brits Dutch Germans etc I believe do not go to reside in Spain with the intention of altering or seeking to change the "culture" there or impose their way of life on the Spanish
The Spaniards saw off the influence of Islam quite a few hundred years ago & all those blue church domes were as I understand it former mosques
How much do you think Muslims have altered the Spanish way of life?
Btw
I don't think it's being taken seriously enough

[Ellis_D]

Not very successfully I'm afraid. Over 90% of British Muslims oppose homo***uality and 75% believe it should be illegal. I appreciate that this is not the case in the multicultural Utopias where you and John2 live.

The leftists will always try to pretend it is a minority. They are either lying or have been so indoctrinated by the lies they hear in the media and from politicians that they actually believe this nonsense.

Here is the truth, from moderate, normal, everyday Muslims:

"These are general views that every Muslim actually has. Every Muslim believes in these things. Just because they are not telling you about it, just because they are not out there in the media doesn't mean they don't believe in them."

"So I will ask you. Everyone in the room. How many of you are normal Muslims? You're not extremists, you're not radical, just normal Sunni Muslims? Please raise your hands. Everybody Masha Allah."

Way too much more to type out. But just see what they all believe - men and women. Men and women should sit separately.

"How many of you agree that the punishments described in the Qur'an and the Sunnah, whether it is death, whether it is stoning for adultery, whatever it is, if it is from Allah and his messenger, that is the best punishment ever possible for humankind?" Again, they all agree.

Just watch it. This is the truth about Islam, when they are telling the truth. Again, these aren't extremist Muslims, just normal, moderate Muslims, following their Qur'an the way they are supposed to if they are true Muslims. If they DO NOT believe this stuff, they are apostates, punishable by death in Islam!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRUHwQW9nyQ

[wendun]

There are few problems with equality and diversity in Brunei.

[ragingpup]

The leftists will always try to pretend it is a minority. They are either lying or have been so indoctrinated by the lies they hear in the media and from politicians that they actually believe this nonsense.

Here is the truth, from moderate, normal, everyday Muslims:

"These are general views that every Muslim actually has. Every Muslim believes in these things. Just because they are not telling you about it, just because they are not out there in the media doesn't mean they don't believe in them."

"So I will ask you. Everyone in the room. How many of you are normal Muslims? You're not extremists, you're not radical, just normal Sunni Muslims? Please raise your hands. Everybody Masha Allah."

Way too much more to type out. But just see what they all believe - men and women. Men and women should sit separately.

"How many of you agree that the punishments described in the Qur'an and the Sunnah, whether it is death, whether it is stoning for adultery, whatever it is, if it is from Allah and his messenger, that is the best punishment ever possible for humankind?" Again, they all agree.

Just watch it. This is the truth about Islam, when they are telling the truth. Again, these aren't extremist Muslims, just normal, moderate Muslims, following their Qur'an the way they are supposed to if they are true Muslims. If they DO NOT believe this stuff, they are apostates, punishable by death in Islam!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRUHwQW9nyQ

Thanks for posting E. I arrived at work early and was waiting for meeting to start and showed this video to our English teacher, a Muslim lady explaining the context of this discussion and your post. She was horrified with this and says that she simply doesn't recognise it with her family and friends (from Leicester) and Muslim friends from here. She is aware that these views are still out there in many communities in the UK but finds them sickening. Her experience, as a Muslim, is that they are an unwelcome minority of her faith in the UK. We employ a few Muslim teachers and workers here as well as students and, having spoken to many of them about integration of different cultures, I can certainly say that her views reflect the rest of our Muslim workers here.

Clearly a more extreme preacher will attract a more extreme flock that reflects back their views and collectively they will not see themselves as extremists. Extremists never do. I could counter this by once again showing videos of Iman's preaching tolerance and evidence of Muslim social inclusion - there is lots of evidence for both sides of the argument and what evidence you believe will depend on your own personal filters.

Again (not sure how many times I have to say this?), I accept that there is a big problem with Muslim groups and other religious groups (Black African/Caribbean in our college community of Waltham Forest) not integrating and in some cases expressing beliefs that conflict with UK laws. It is a big problem. I accept it. But again I ask, what do we do about it?

I’ve given my solution (hardly mine, it’s the state’s really– to continue to enforce children of UK nationals to attend British state schools where they will be given a rounded education that challenges bigoted views such as those held by those in your video. They cannot opt their children out of it. They have to go through with it – even the 126 Muslim schools (most private) are regulated to follow the same inclusive education as any other state school and are inspected to ensure that they do. Any parents that are not happy with this inclusive education, that promotes tolerance, and does not allow their kid to attend is prosecuted. Quite rightfully. If they persist, they are not welcome as far as I am concerned and need to educate their children in a country that is inkeeping with their intolerance.

Again, that’s my solution and thankfully the approach that the government and educationalists are pursuing. What’s ideas do you have to move forward?

[Exiletyke]

Go on rp show us this video of Imams preaching tolerance
I must have missed it

[great_fire]

"Pakistani pubs" though LOL

Poor old pup doesn't even know Muslims don't drink, and he's meant to be a teacher.

I don't really know why the left seem to believe Muslims are liberal socialist types like themselves, maybe it's because most vote Labour?

[great_fire]

The leftists will always try to pretend it is a minority. They are either lying or have been so indoctrinated by the lies they hear in the media and from politicians that they actually believe this nonsense.

Here is the truth, from moderate, normal, everyday Muslims:

"These are general views that every Muslim actually has. Every Muslim believes in these things. Just because they are not telling you about it, just because they are not out there in the media doesn't mean they don't believe in them."

"So I will ask you. Everyone in the room. How many of you are normal Muslims? You're not extremists, you're not radical, just normal Sunni Muslims? Please raise your hands. Everybody Masha Allah."

Way too much more to type out. But just see what they all believe - men and women. Men and women should sit separately.

"How many of you agree that the punishments described in the Qur'an and the Sunnah, whether it is death, whether it is stoning for adultery, whatever it is, if it is from Allah and his messenger, that is the best punishment ever possible for humankind?" Again, they all agree.

Just watch it. This is the truth about Islam, when they are telling the truth. Again, these aren't extremist Muslims, just normal, moderate Muslims, following their Qur'an the way they are supposed to if they are true Muslims. If they DO NOT believe this stuff, they are apostates, punishable by death in Islam!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRUHwQW9nyQ

And the media in this country never ask Muslims about their views because they know they don't want to hear the answers.

[ragingpup]

Go on rp show us this video of Imams preaching tolerance
I must have missed it

5 second search again:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8ra9l_359o


But please don't let me trying to balance the arguments as an implication that I don't think that there's a substantial problem. I'm still waiting for (and the others) your proposed solutions to that problem? Why is that such a hard thing to put forward?

[wendun]

ragingpup, we'll just have to agree to differ. I accept your testimony regarding the views of your Muslim English teacher but cannot accept her suggestion that this is an insignificant minority. I ended my involvement with anti-Nazi organisations and the local Trades Council back in the 1990s when Muslim members voted en-bloc a motion to support the fatwa against Salman Rushdie and these were socialists, trade unionists and members of the Labour Party. My involvement now is second hand but old friends still active tell me that attitudes to women and homo***uality remain a big problem and its widespread to the point of universality in the local Muslim community.
As to solutions I doubt there are any. The gravity of the UK situation will probably vary according to external stimuli of which the Brunei nonsense is the latest.

[Exiletyke]

5 second search again:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8ra9l_359o


But please don't let me trying to balance the arguments as an implication that I don't think that there's a substantial problem. I'm still waiting for (and the others) your proposed solutions to that problem? Why is that such a hard thing to put forward?

Thankyou rp, courteous as ever
BTW I think the answer is ........................................42