Time to go

[champs95]

As much as I'm all for giving a young player time. You'd have thought Brereton would've looked like a footballer by now? Or resemble one. I wouldn't even mind if he was missing lots of chances. At least he's be there, creating it. He doesn't even look close. And we are starting to bank on this notion he will suddenly improve the side over the summer? Who'd want to come to a side so low down with no money? We won't attract anyone half decent. We lose every week. We all know what and where needs improving. We just haven't got the means to do so. And I am concerned his signings overall either don't play, or aren't good enough anyway.

[AucklandRover]

I predicted 14th.
Why have we lost 9 in 11?
Two answers:
1) I don't know for sure, because results in football have so many factors behind them.
2) Trying to make that more solid:
a) Mowbray being over-loyal to the players who had done so well up to the start of February;
b) Injuries to key players - especially Lenihan - leaving our defence seriously weakened;
c) A drastic falling away in form of four of our most consistent players: Dack, Bennett, Williams and Mulgrew;
d) Failure to turn possession into clear-cut chances;
e) The nerviness in the last 15 minutes that has characterised this team for two seasons;
f) Probably connected to the previous one - the lack of a natural leader in midfield;
g) Mowbray's lack of confidence in the younger players (although we don't KNOW, of course, that they would have done any better);
h) The fact that a few losses in themselves breed doubt and a loss of confidence, so you get into a vicious circle;
i) This strange business of our often only starting to get into our stride in the second half (very hard to put a finger on the reason for that);
j) TM persisting with the 4-2-3-1 despite not having players ideal for it;
k) Having too many players who are risk-averse;
l) The dramatic inconsistency of our full-backs;
m) Total lack of good fortune in the penalty-area: how many loose balls have fallen into Graham's or Dack's path during this spell? Very few;
n) A lack of height and bulk in the team;
o) A lack of class and quality compared to the Clubs who have spent heavily;
Etc.

In other words, the usual thing when trying to fathom sporting success/failure: complexity - with some factors down to the manager, some not. Of course, Mowbray is the one who will pay the penalty, because that is the easy way out in football. I accept that's the reality, although I do get annoyed when even the players seize on this factor - as they often do - to free themselves of any blame: "Well, you see, mate, the reason I played badly in all those games was because the manager was poor. Simple, innit?"

[champs95]

I predicted 14th.
Why have we lost 9 in 11?
Two answers:
1) I don't know for sure, because results in football have so many factors behind them.
2) Trying to make that more solid:
a) Mowbray being over-loyal to the players who had done so well up to the start of February;
b) Injuries to key players - especially Lenihan - leaving our defence seriously weakened;
c) A drastic falling away in form of four of our most consistent players: Dack, Bennett, Williams and Mulgrew;
d) Failure to turn possession into clear-cut chances;
e) The nerviness in the last 15 minutes that has characterised this team for two seasons;
f) Probably connected to the previous one - the lack of a natural leader in midfield;
g) Mowbray's lack of confidence in the younger players (although we don't KNOW, of course, that they would have done any better);
h) The fact that a few losses in themselves breed doubt and a loss of confidence, so you get into a vicious circle;
i) This strange business of our often only starting to get into our stride in the second half (very hard to put a finger on the reason for that);
j) TM persisting with the 4-2-3-1 despite not having players ideal for it;
k) Having too many players who are risk-averse;
l) The dramatic inconsistency of our full-backs;
m) Total lack of good fortune in the penalty-area: how many loose balls have fallen into Graham's or Dack's path during this spell? Very few;
n) A lack of height and bulk in the team;
o) A lack of class and quality compared to the Clubs who have spent heavily;
Etc.

In other words, the usual thing when trying to fathom sporting success/failure: complexity - with some factors down to the manager, some not. Of course, Mowbray is the one who will pay the penalty, because that is the easy way out in football. I accept that's the reality, although I do get annoyed when even the players seize on this factor - as they often do - to free themselves of any blame: "Well, you see, mate, the reason I played badly in all those games was because the manager was poor. Simple, innit?"

Who bought those players? Who chose to keep those players? Who trains and motivates those players?
Stoke have spent a tonne of money, yet clubs like Brentford and PNE have spent nothing. Yet they are way above clubs like Stoke? Why?

[champs95]

And we wont finish anywhere near 14th. I'd have been disappointed with that, but happy to put that to one side and accept its our first season back. And hoped to push on for next season. 14th would have been considered a good first bedding in season.
We will finish much lower than 14th. Not a chance

[champs95]

And I'm not just blaming this all on the manager.
I hear about rumours all the time at Rovers. Some true, some not. We have a bad apple (at least one) in our dressing room. Who has had an impact on this shocking loss of form. Not the sole reason, but a factor. That person didn't bring themselves to the club. They where brought here. Or left here to create problems. Now I'm not sure if that's Mulgrew, Dack or Rodwell. What I have been told, is its a big personality inside the dressing room. Who does have some sway with the other players. I do believe this to be the case. Its great everyone celebrating in unision when we beat Ipswich at home. Doing their 'team' celebration.
The minute things don't go our way, and I've seen this with my own eyes, all season long, at games I've attended live, the body language of certain 'older' players and the likes of Dack is nothing short of disgraceful. Hands out, blaming it all on someone else. I was concerned about our so called team spirit as far back as wigan and Preston away. Early in the season, but we managed to get back on track soon enough. So it was hidden away. Now its an issue. They blame one another. We have no team spirit.
We can blame all the players, and sack the vast majority of them? I'd be happy with that. They are just as much to blame for this.
But clubs don't go sacking 22 players. They tend to sack the bloke responsible. And if that person shows absolutely no signs of improving it, then the writing is on the wall. And on Sat, he proved again, he has no answers. Well he does, his answer is Evans, Bennett and Smallwood. He will play probably play Conway tomorrow (instead of the likes of Travis) as he opts for the tried and tested players. Its starting to look like he wants to leave.

And Dack was fine, he was just upset his girlfriend dumped him. But that's fine, lets defend the kid earning £25k a week. Its not his fault. He must find life tough, being the first lad to have to go to work after his Mrs dumps him. Good job TM likes him so much to give him the day off. Its not like we have fans who pay a fortune to watch these idiots.

Well, they wont be anymore. I enjoyed Saturday. It was the first time in months I wasn't completely let down, annoyed and fed up. My seat was sat empty as I have already paid for my season ticket. But I'm not bothering to turn up anymore. I am taking the same stance as the players and manager. And good old Bradley Dack. I am taking Saturdays off from now on. And will be watching Spurs vrs Man City in the Champs league tomorrow, not watching another horror show, from Ritchie Smallwood and a bunch of players we all know aren't good enough. What is the point. The club needed crowds to improve this season, which was happening bit by bit as we improved. That's declined rapidly. And will continue now the rot has really set in.

[champs95]

m) Total lack of good fortune in the penalty-area: how many loose balls have fallen into Graham's or Dack's path during this spell? Very few;

The ball fell kindly to Armstrong last week at Villa away. It was 1-0 at the time. We where getting ontop. He was clean through, with only the keeper to beat. And put it wide.

On Sat, at 0-0 the ball fell kindly to Armstrong. He was only 9 yards out, with the whole goal to aim for. And he hit the bar. They didn't get a good chance like that. Neither did Villa the week before. Both teams had to create chances. And take their chance. we cant keep making excuses like this, its embarrassing.

Armstrong cost us nearly £2m. Quite a lot for us. And he isn't up to it.

[AucklandRover]

"Who bought those players? Who chose to keep those players? Who trains and motivates those players?
Stoke have spent a tonne of money, yet clubs like Brentford and PNE have spent nothing. Yet they are way above clubs like Stoke? Why?"

Champs - I have never for a moment denied that the manager is ultimately responsible - like any boss - and will correctly be judged on results.
Let me ask you two questions, though.
Are you saying that Brentford and PNE are doing relatively well, purely and simply because of one factor - their managers?
And if so, why were we doing well up to the end of January when OUR manager is clearly so dreadful?
(Alex Neil is a CLASSIC example of what I said about managers, anyway: which of his seasons with Norwich are we to judge him on?).

On your other points:
1) Have you been in the treatment centre, to know for certain that Dack DIDN'T have a tight hamstring?
2) You cannot make these allegations of a "bad apple", based, you admit, on nothing but rumour, and then submit the idea as if it is proven fact.
As for the players' body-language, of course it is subdued; they are on a terrible run and confidence is very low. We have too many "quiet" players. We could really do with a Savage or a Batty out there!

[champs95]

"Who bought those players? Who chose to keep those players? Who trains and motivates those players?
Stoke have spent a tonne of money, yet clubs like Brentford and PNE have spent nothing. Yet they are way above clubs like Stoke? Why?"

Champs - I have never for a moment denied that the manager is ultimately responsible - like any boss - and will correctly be judged on results.
Let me ask you two questions, though.
Are you saying that Brentford and PNE are doing relatively well, purely and simply because of one factor - their managers?
And if so, why were we doing well up to the end of January when OUR manager is clearly so dreadful?
(Alex Neil is a CLASSIC example of what I said about managers, anyway: which of his seasons with Norwich are we to judge him on?).

On your other points:
1) Have you been in the treatment centre, to know for certain that Dack DIDN'T have a tight hamstring?
2) You cannot make these allegations of a "bad apple", based, you admit, on nothing but rumour, and then submit the idea as if it is proven fact.
As for the players' body-language, of course it is subdued; they are on a terrible run and confidence is very low. We have too many "quiet" players. We could really do with a Savage or a Batty out there!

We really need to get past this Jan thing. I can see us talking about that as we drop out of this league and prepare to play Accy Stanley next season. The season didn't stop in Jan. It is still running, and we stopped playing as far back as then. We have only won once since then. Its bloody mid-April.
I completely agree, nobody, including me, said this in Jan. But this is where we are now. 8 points of relegation, desperate for a result from anywhere. Teams don't just collapse and fall apart unless there is something very wrong. This isn't just bad luck. Or all down injury, or bad form. Something is wrong.
At QPR, they are experiencing a similar run. They had a great run earlier this season. Just before they played us. And now they have sacked their manager. Because of a terrible set of results.

I'm not really bothered either way as to if TM stays or leaves. At games nobody is calling for his head. Its not as imminent he will leave as you think Aucks. We don't have a legion of fans baying for blood. We barley have any fans left. The owners probably aren't even aware of the feeling of disharmony. My bet is they are completely in the dark.

I just don't think it matters, we wont get in anyone decent to replace him. Not anyone who will improve things. Its crap, and its lower than mid-table rubbish. We will lose a lot more than we win. And crowds will remain low. But we have no money. No way of improving by buying anyone decent. So we are scrapping around with Div1 players. We have a great bunch of young players. But a manager who wouldn't play them, or trust them, unless we have an injury crisis. That wont change next season. TM wont change his managerial style. He will go and look for another Evans and Smallwood for next season, and that's where they are. If we replaced TM, I'd expect things to go badly. As they wont be able to strengthen this poor side.

I don't think TM will leave in the next few games, unless we keep losing and putting in displays like Sat. That just wasn't good enough, and nobody is going to accept that. If we play ok, but lose, I think most accept that. Villa away wasn't a huge issue. We all knew what would happen. But at least we put the effort in.

I am never going to mention a rumour again, I'll stick to facts.

Bradley Dacks Mrs announced on Twitter yesterday, that they had just had an argument, and haven't split up. So expect him to be 'fit' tomorrow and playing. When I say playing, he puts a shirt on, goes through the motions for 90 mins.


I wasn't in Old Trafford for Jose Mouriniho's time at Manchester United, but I can tell you that he had a huge falling out with a main player (Pogba) which caused huge issues throughout the club. I wasn't sat in the dressing room. I didn't witness what was said. I can tell something went terribly wrong. Things happen inside football clubs all the time. But fair enough, I wasn't sat there, so therefore it didn't happen.

[champs95]

On the Dack situation.
Do you think he is a trustworthy character? Do you think if his head wasn't right, it would be the first time he has pulled such a stunt?
Do you remember him nearly going to jail earlier this season?
That was put down as injury at first. Then TM spoke about it afterwards, and explained he had to stand up in court for him. Only the weird but was, the Sat before that we all got told he had a slight thigh strain? Not find that a little strange? Any other players getting away with that?

[seventwo]

He hasn't had a great season at all ....... only 16 goals and 9 assists from 40 appearances so far. I wonder what he might do if he had his heart in it, his head straight and was trying ......