Time to go

[champs95]

Sorry but it is. He is taking us backwards now. Another abject performance. We all know that Evans and Smallwood aren't good enough. And Travis has been playing well. And he goes with those 2 again. He is just too cautious. One up front vrs a side who hardly conceed? Graham was isolated again. You can't ignore 9 defeats in 11. And it's the performances. We still will stay up, but for what? We will drop next season. This is no different than the Owen Coyle days now. We won't even get the points we did last time we got relegated. It's pathetic. And most are losing interest already for next season .

[robinrover]

Possibly
2 things need to be answered first
Will we stay up?
If we do will he get funds to strengthen?
Yes we are 8 points clear but will we win another game?I am thinking No
So we have the worry of looking over our shoulder
Rotherham will be bang up for it after a very good win against forest.
We look very average and that's generous
So say we stay up what then?
We need a massive overall defensively
With pennies not pounds to spend next season looks like a rough ride
Nyambe looks shaky so a right back is needed
Bell/Williams looks like chocolate tea pots
Mulgrew past it
So just lenihan left.
Problems big problems.

[AucklandRover]

I wasn't happy when I saw the team because Mowbray was lining himself up for a absolute towelling from the fans for anything less than a victory. It would have made much more sense for him to have left Smallwood, Evans and Bennett out, because even if the result had been the same, the supporters MIGHT have acknowledged he'd tried something different. (Not all the supporters, obviously. Some have been on his case for two years. whatever has been happening on the pitch).
This match was a re-run of many games I've seen in my life when a team's confidence is low. We actually started well, and if Armstrong's shot had gone in, we might have got the lift needed. However, the moment they scored, our self-belief plummeted for the rest of the half.
As has often been the case, we DID come out fighting in the second half, but it was all huff-and-puff, with very little creativity. Some fans talk up Armstrong and Rothwell, and they do look quite good with the ball at their feet, but how often does either supply an incisive pass?
Since Lenihan's return, the defence has looked steadier, but we simply cannot carve out enough decent chances - especially against a defence like Stoke's.
TM has to bite the bullet for Tuesday, now. He has nothing to lose from putting out a changed squad, in order to give the team a bit of spark. I think he should try something like:
Raya
Nyambe Lenihan Magloire Williams
Travis Reed
Chapman Dack Rothwell
Graham.

We would still have two tackling midfielders, but Nyambe and Williams would not be required to overlap so much, while Dack and Rothwell could operate as twin No. 10s.
Clearly, we might get overrun in midfield by Derby's superior quality, and lose 2-4, but would that really matter? I think TM needs to focus on signalling change. I'm not sure he'll survive now, because the snowball effect against him is becoming all too obvious.
I still want him to be given another transfer-window and six months, because I think he deserves it. In any case, as you all know(!), I've never been sold on this "It's all down to the manager" religion. Too many men have gone from heroes to zeros, year on year, and look at Pulis. He's been bad, very good and terrible in the course of this season alone!
What we are seeing with our team now is that there is a considerable gulf in class and quality between us and the top dozen Championship clubs. We defied that with spirit and will for most of the season, but the moment self-belief started to dip, reality began to bite.

[champs95]

Possibly
2 things need to be answered first
Will we stay up?
If we do will he get funds to strengthen?
Yes we are 8 points clear but will we win another game?I am thinking No
So we have the worry of looking over our shoulder
Rotherham will be bang up for it after a very good win against forest.
We look very average and that's generous
So say we stay up what then?
We need a massive overall defensively
With pennies not pounds to spend next season looks like a rough ride
Nyambe looks shaky so a right back is needed
Bell/Williams looks like chocolate tea pots
Mulgrew past it
So just lenihan left.
Problems big problems.

I'd like to see Rotherham stay up. I'd actually laugh if we went down after all this. We deserve it. The manager has made a right mess of things. And the players ate doing their bit in this debacle. The whole lot of them are an embarrassment. Good luck to Rotherham at least they are fighting. We are a joke. Hopefully they lose to Bolton aswell as all the other sides we where already going to lose to. As long as he keeps playing Bennett, Evans and Smallwood then everything will be fine .......

[champs95]

I wasn't happy when I saw the team because Mowbray was lining himself up for a absolute towelling from the fans for anything less than a victory. It would have made much more sense for him to have left Smallwood, Evans and Bennett out, because even if the result had been the same, the supporters MIGHT have acknowledged he'd tried something different. (Not all the supporters, obviously. Some have been on his case for two years. whatever has been happening on the pitch).
This match was a re-run of many games I've seen in my life when a team's confidence is low. We actually started well, and if Armstrong's shot had gone in, we might have got the lift needed. However, the moment they scored, our self-belief plummeted for the rest of the half.
As has often been the case, we DID come out fighting in the second half, but it was all huff-and-puff, with very little creativity. Some fans talk up Armstrong and Rothwell, and they do look quite good with the ball at their feet, but how often does either supply an incisive pass?
Since Lenihan's return, the defence has looked steadier, but we simply cannot carve out enough decent chances - especially against a defence like Stoke's.
TM has to bite the bullet for Tuesday, now. He has nothing to lose from putting out a changed squad, in order to give the team a bit of spark. I think he should try something like:
Raya
Nyambe Lenihan Magloire Williams
Travis Reed
Chapman Dack Rothwell
Graham.

We would still have two tackling midfielders, but Nyambe and Williams would not be required to overlap so much, while Dack and Rothwell could operate as twin No. 10s.
Clearly, we might get overrun in midfield by Derby's superior quality, and lose 2-4, but would that really matter? I think TM needs to focus on signalling change. I'm not sure he'll survive now, because the snowball effect against him is becoming all too obvious.
I still want him to be given another transfer-window and six months, because I think he deserves it. In any case, as you all know(!), I've never been sold on this "It's all down to the manager" religion. Too many men have gone from heroes to zeros, year on year, and look at Pulis. He's been bad, very good and terrible in the course of this season alone!
What we are seeing with our team now is that there is a considerable gulf in class and quality between us and the top dozen Championship clubs. We defied that with spirit and will for most of the season, but the moment self-belief started to dip, reality began to bite.

That's one of the biggest issues. No matter what, unless we have an injury crisis, TM will not be brave enough to play any of the young lads. NOT kids!!! Kids are under 10. These are young men ready to play football. If they aren't ready to play 70/80/90 min's at 20 or 21 for our first team, what are they being paid for? Why do we have an academy? So lads like Buckley or Travis can sit on the sidelines and watch Evans and Smallwood prove they aren't good enough, again, and again.
TM is not tactically astute enough to find a solution to this ever growing problem. That he created. This old boys club where everyone, including himself all got handed contracts mid-season. Since then, I think we have won a couple of games.

I have listened and acknowledged Auks, but enough is enough for me. Where will we end up with Mowbray? So what if we just about manage to stay up, which is the best that can happen. We will just get relegated next season. We have no money, so TM would need to pull out some crackers on a free. I'm assuming more old pro's like Evans, Smallwood or Bennett (Mulgrew, Williams, Rodwell and Conway) which means lads like Butterworth and Buckley etc have no chance.
These are children, they aren't under 10's. They are physically men, and need game time. With other men. Not other Under 23's.
Saturday showed me that we have a TONNE of problems. Not just a side that have lost all of their confidence. A clueless manager. Our main man given the day off because he split up with his girlfriend. A pathetic performance, a cop out from playing the young lads. Woeful tactics, poor selection. And another step closer to relegation. Which would be fully deserved if it did happen. We know now, that we cant add to this squad by spending money. So all we will get is more dross that he has signed already. Brereton, Armstrong, Rothwell, Rodwell, Davenport (who is a crock) etc etc all these signings haven't worked out. More dross added to an already dreadful, ageing, de-motivated side.
We wont get to see the men ....not boys.....coming through our academy in favour of the likes of Bennett or Evans, because he would rather stand on the sinking ship insisting he was correct all along, and go down with it, than accept he made a mistake and change it.

Fans would accept the same result vrs Stoke if we even pretended to go for it. The side he picked, the performance, the attitude all stinks. And I wont be going again this season. I didn't go to the home game on Sat for the first time since the Owen Coyle days. And this is no different.
Auks, even you always said we would finish mid-table and this was all an over-reaction. We clearly aren't going to even finish that high. And this is a debacle. Something is rotten at the club. I've been saying it for months. I believ its someone inside the dressing room.

The main concern is, who sacks him? When we lose to Derby on Tues he should go.
Venky's haven't got a clue about football, even they know to steer clear of that now. But if they sacked him, they would not know who to get in instead? Waggott was brought in BY Mowbray. So I cant see him being the person. All his backroom staff are his, not the clubs. So they will all have to leave aswell.
I'd put Damien Johnson in after we get beat by Derby. And if they got really, really lucky and Rotherham just ran out out of steam and Rovers finished around the same position as crap like QPR, and just about avoid relegation, at least he may play his young lads. There has to be a positive from this season, before it ends. No point having good young players coming through, and keep regressing back to ****e like Elliott Bennett. I'm sick and tired of people saying ....yeah but he runs about. He does, he cant pass a ball, or cross it. But yeah, he can run in a straight line. You need more than that in this league.

[AucklandRover]

How on earth can you make the judgement that Brereton, Armstrong, Rothwell, Rodwell and Davenport are "dross"?
Davenport has not played; Brereton was bought as a medium-term investment; Rodwell has looked classy at times, despite not having a sustained run; Rothwell and Armstrong are not ideal for a team that is struggling, but would certainly be useful attacking players in a team on the front foot.
The same is true, probably, of Chapman.
Of the existing players, Raya, Lenihan, Travis, Graham and Dack are certainly of Championship class. The verdict is still out on Nyambe and Bell, but time is on their side. Reed will probably not be with us
Let's assume we remove all the other old-stagers: Mulgrew, Williams, Evans, Smallwood, Bennett, Gladwin and Conway. Let's also assume that - conservatively - three players will come through next season from Wharton, Magloire, Grayson, Platt, Hart, Thompson, Buckley, Rankin-Costello, Butterworth and Nuttall (leaving some other good ones out).
So a potential first-team squad of about 20 from the following 25:
Raya, Fisher
Nyambe, Lenihan, Rodwell(?), Wharton, Magloire, Grayson, Platt, Bell, Hart, Thompson
Chapman, Rankin-Costello, Travis, Davenport, Buckley, Rothwell
Graham, Dack, Armstrong, Brereton, Nuttall, Samuel, Butterworth.

Now I don't actually expect ALL of the seven I mentioned to leave, but whether they do or not, we will definitely need about four experienced players to come in, the priorities being a second target-man centre-forward, a Hendry-style centre-back and a midfield play-maker.
Of course that would not be a strong squad, compared to the big spenders and teams on the way down, like Fulham, but that is the reality of the type of club we are.
I'm not sure who you are comparing us with, Champs. Mid-table Championship is probably a realistic spot!
The other thing is, you are talking as if we are doomed next season, if we survive this one, but you must know football isn't like that.
Our January results didn't mean we were bound for glory, any more than our recent run means we are National League-bound. Every season brings surprises. No-one had Bristol City marked for success this season, and the BBC's pundits-poll in August had Stoke as the likely Champions, come May!
This is football. It is fundamentally unpredictable, outside the PL top-six. Looking back at our season, I would say there were two potentially pivotal moments: Lenihan's injury, and allowing that ridiculous injury-time equaliser in against Birmingham. That really seemed to do for our confidence.
I am still a supporter of giving Mowbray another chance, because I think he deserves it, despite his recent spell of indecision and running on the spot. The other thing is, I simply have no faith in this creed that change always works.
Incidentally, it is beginning to look as if Dack was genuinely injured, but might be fit for Tuesday.
A final point: I have no idea what you mean about a rotten apple in the dressing-room. Where is the slightest shred of evidence for that? It's conspiracy theory run mad.

[champs95]

How on earth can you make the judgement that Brereton, Armstrong, Rothwell, Rodwell and Davenport are "dross"?
Davenport has not played; Brereton was bought as a medium-term investment; Rodwell has looked classy at times, despite not having a sustained run; Rothwell and Armstrong are not ideal for a team that is struggling, but would certainly be useful attacking players in a team on the front foot.
The same is true, probably, of Chapman.
Of the existing players, Raya, Lenihan, Travis, Graham and Dack are certainly of Championship class. The verdict is still out on Nyambe and Bell, but time is on their side. Reed will probably not be with us
Let's assume we remove all the other old-stagers: Mulgrew, Williams, Evans, Smallwood, Bennett, Gladwin and Conway. Let's also assume that - conservatively - three players will come through next season from Wharton, Magloire, Grayson, Platt, Hart, Thompson, Buckley, Rankin-Costello, Butterworth and Nuttall (leaving some other good ones out).
So a potential first-team squad of about 20 from the following 25:
Raya, Fisher
Nyambe, Lenihan, Rodwell(?), Wharton, Magloire, Grayson, Platt, Bell, Hart, Thompson
Chapman, Rankin-Costello, Travis, Davenport, Buckley, Rothwell
Graham, Dack, Armstrong, Brereton, Nuttall, Samuel, Butterworth.

Now I don't actually expect ALL of the seven I mentioned to leave, but whether they do or not, we will definitely need about four experienced players to come in, the priorities being a second target-man centre-forward, a Hendry-style centre-back and a midfield play-maker.
Of course that would not be a strong squad, compared to the big spenders and teams on the way down, like Fulham, but that is the reality of the type of club we are.
I'm not sure who you are comparing us with, Champs. Mid-table Championship is probably a realistic spot!
The other thing is, you are talking as if we are doomed next season, if we survive this one, but you must know football isn't like that.
Our January results didn't mean we were bound for glory, any more than our recent run means we are National League-bound. Every season brings surprises. No-one had Bristol City marked for success this season, and the BBC's pundits-poll in August had Stoke as the likely Champions, come May!
This is football. It is fundamentally unpredictable, outside the PL top-six. Looking back at our season, I would say there were two potentially pivotal moments: Lenihan's injury, and allowing that ridiculous injury-time equaliser in against Birmingham. That really seemed to do for our confidence.
I am still a supporter of giving Mowbray another chance, because I think he deserves it, despite his recent spell of indecision and running on the spot. The other thing is, I simply have no faith in this creed that change always works.
Incidentally, it is beginning to look as if Dack was genuinely injured, but might be fit for Tuesday.
A final point: I have no idea what you mean about a rotten apple in the dressing-room. Where is the slightest shred of evidence for that? It's conspiracy theory run mad.

May I ask? Where did you think we'd finish? Why do you think we have lost 9 games in 11?

[champs95]

The signings, Brereton, Rothwell Rodwell and Armstrong have been poor. And haven't worked. Not one of them have improved us.
One never plays, like another of his signings Gladwin. So we are paying someone to not play football. Yes, his signings have been dross.

I take it you missed Armstrong's miss on Sat? And last week at Villa. He's been the best of a bad bunch.

[AucklandRover]

The signings, Brereton, Rothwell Rodwell and Armstrong have been poor. And haven't worked. Not one of them have improved us.
One never plays, like another of his signings Gladwin. So we are paying someone to not play football. Yes, his signings have been dross.

I take it you missed Armstrong's miss on Sat? And last week at Villa. He's been the best of a bad bunch.

Well, actually, many fans are arguing that Rothwell has been our best player recently!
As for Gladwin - like Davenport - he has been injured, so that is hardly a fair call!

[champs95]

Don't sign players with bad injury records then.
Rothwell looked ok for 5 mins at the end of games, coming on as sub. I'm reality he isn't good enough. Sat he was crap.