Next Season

[AucklandRover]

The U-23 team against Liverpool:
Albinson, Charley Doyle, Thompson, Davenport, Magloire, Carter, Rankin-Costello, Buckley, Vale, Butterworth, Mols.

I put the post below on the Telegraph site, but I'll get a more sensible discussion here, so I've pasted it:

"An interesting starting XI. (All of those on the bench were from lower down the age-ranks).
Also available (some not till the end of the season) are: Fisher, Jack Doyle (is he injured?), Wharton, Platt, Grayson, Hart, Jack Evans, Lyons, Paton and Mansell (not counting Chapman, Brereton and Nuttall).
I am assuming a few of those will not be retained, but we are still going to have at least 15 in their late-****s or early-twenties.
The following are all on the fringe of the first-team, I'd have thought: Davenport, Magloire, Rankin-Costello, Buckley and Butterworth (plus, obviously, Chapman, Brereton and Nuttall).
Now, there seems to be a general feeling that we are going to bring in about four experienced players, and in our current first-team squad, we have 19, not including those already mentioned - or Downing and Reed.
Adding 19 to the 8 youngsters mentioned and the possible four new signings, we get a figure of 31. Then there are those who were near the top of the pecking order before going out on loan: Wharton, Platt, Grayson, Lyons and Mansell. Have they dropped off the radar? If not, we are up to 36.
That isn't going to happen, and quite a few are nearing the end of their youth-contracts, so the club must be considering quite a drastic cull.
Presumably, all of the following are in a greater or lesser degree of danger: Leutwiler, Mulgrew, Rodwell, Wharton, Platt, Grayson, Jack Doyle, Hart, Smallwood, C. Evans, Gladwin, Bennett, Conway, Samuel, Nuttall, Lyons and Mansell (17).
If ALL of them went (clearly not going to happen), that would leave a likely first-team squad of:
Raya, Fisher
Nyambe, Lenihan, Williams, Magloire, Bell
Chapman, Rankin-Costello, Davenport, Travis, Buckley, Rothwell
Brereton, Armstrong, Dack, Graham, Butterworth.
...+ four new signings.
That's a squad of 22, with some decent back-up still available from the U-23 team.
[In fact, I expect at least five of the ones I "culled" to be with us still].
Assuming the new signings are all the type who could step straight into the match-day squad (which will probably mean an outlay of at least 10 million!), how will we be placed to challenge for the play-offs next season?
Any guesses or bets?
And what about the "four" new players? Goalkeeper, centre-back, play-maker, centre-forward? Is that enough? What about full-back?"

[champs95]

The U-23 team against Liverpool:
Albinson, Charley Doyle, Thompson, Davenport, Magloire, Carter, Rankin-Costello, Buckley, Vale, Butterworth, Mols.

I put the post below on the Telegraph site, but I'll get a more sensible discussion here, so I've pasted it:

"An interesting starting XI. (All of those on the bench were from lower down the age-ranks).
Also available (some not till the end of the season) are: Fisher, Jack Doyle (is he injured?), Wharton, Platt, Grayson, Hart, Jack Evans, Lyons, Paton and Mansell (not counting Chapman, Brereton and Nuttall).
I am assuming a few of those will not be retained, but we are still going to have at least 15 in their late-****s or early-twenties.
The following are all on the fringe of the first-team, I'd have thought: Davenport, Magloire, Rankin-Costello, Buckley and Butterworth (plus, obviously, Chapman, Brereton and Nuttall).
Now, there seems to be a general feeling that we are going to bring in about four experienced players, and in our current first-team squad, we have 19, not including those already mentioned - or Downing and Reed.
Adding 19 to the 8 youngsters mentioned and the possible four new signings, we get a figure of 31. Then there are those who were near the top of the pecking order before going out on loan: Wharton, Platt, Grayson, Lyons and Mansell. Have they dropped off the radar? If not, we are up to 36.
That isn't going to happen, and quite a few are nearing the end of their youth-contracts, so the club must be considering quite a drastic cull.
Presumably, all of the following are in a greater or lesser degree of danger: Leutwiler, Mulgrew, Rodwell, Wharton, Platt, Grayson, Jack Doyle, Hart, Smallwood, C. Evans, Gladwin, Bennett, Conway, Samuel, Nuttall, Lyons and Mansell (17).
If ALL of them went (clearly not going to happen), that would leave a likely first-team squad of:
Raya, Fisher
Nyambe, Lenihan, Williams, Magloire, Bell
Chapman, Rankin-Costello, Davenport, Travis, Buckley, Rothwell
Brereton, Armstrong, Dack, Graham, Butterworth.
...+ four new signings.
That's a squad of 22, with some decent back-up still available from the U-23 team.
[In fact, I expect at least five of the ones I "culled" to be with us still].
Assuming the new signings are all the type who could step straight into the match-day squad (which will probably mean an outlay of at least 10 million!), how will we be placed to challenge for the play-offs next season?
Any guesses or bets?
And what about the "four" new players? Goalkeeper, centre-back, play-maker, centre-forward? Is that enough? What about full-back?"

I said this at the start of the season, I re-iterated it mid-season and I will say the same now.
Of the side that started the season, and where still around mid-season and played on Sat night, I would only be starting next season with 5 ....maybe 6 tops. The rest must move on, we wont go anywhere with them.

Of who started vrs Norwich, I would only think about keeping -

Williams
Lenihan
Bell

Travis
Armstrong

Dack - who personally I would be looking to get out of the club as quickly as possible, for the highest bidder. So we can go strengthen.

Maybe Graham for a player/coaching role, but not to play much.

The rest pretty much can leave, we need fresh blood, and need to get players like Mulgrew, Rodwell, Bennett and Smallwood out asap as they will just take up places for the young lads coming through.

I don't think either keeper is worth keeping, but maybe keep Raya as back-up. We know he can't be trusted.
We wouldn't get a penny for Rothwell, but I think he needs to move on too. He isn't going to add anything at all to us. We either need a winger or a player who can pick a pass. To get the ball from our defence, and give it to our artists. Rothwell can do neither.

[champs95]

For me, Nuttall, Rothwell and Smallwood are very good Div1 players.
Like say Cairney for Fulham. Much better than most Championship players. Goes up a level, and looks out of his depth. still a nice footballer, but isn't nearly as effective once you take that step.
Dack will be the same, he will simply not be able to make the step up.

But the three I mentioned, are not quite good enough for the Championship over a full season.
We require players to be just as good as the ones they are replacing, if we do have to turn to them.
Conway cant be a starter, but always seems to be effective in coming on. We don't severely drop our standards if he doesn't play. We are not weakened when he comes on. We need that balance across the pitch.
This may appear harsh, but football is harsh.
Bennett started this season so well. Carrying on where he left off last season. Pretty much one of the first names on the team-sheet. After xmas, because of his all action style, he is completely ineffective. I'm really not being harsh when I say, he can't even do a simple thing like cross a ball without any pressure on him. Twice again on Sat he was put in well, got behind the last defender out wide, and knocked an aimless ball out of play. That's pretty much been his game since Jan. And another we cant afford to carry over a full season. There simply is more to football than running about. In the Champ, you wont get away with it. Which is why he has been so poor second half of the season. Its a pity as I like him. If he did stay, he'd have to be benched most weeks, and really improve his ability. At 31, I don't feel he will improve. So we need to be looking at somebody else. I am not a huge fan of Nyambe. But we must hope he will improve drastically. Still young, so I guess we have to at least try.

[seventwo]

Sorry but this is all pure fantasy and belongs on the LET and BRFCS

[AucklandRover]

It's fun, though, Seventwo...well, for me, anyway, but that's because I'm a nerd!

[AucklandRover]

Champs - Seventwo is right about fantasy in the sense that there is no way we can afford to pay for more than two or three quality new players. Otherwise, we have to rely on this business of "unearthing gems", which I am very sceptical about.
I think you are being harsh on Rothwell. I reckon there is always room for one unpredictable "flair" player who doesn't contribute much in other respects.
What I feel, though, is that you can only afford one of those on the pitch at a time, and we seem to have a few in that mode: Rothwell, Armstrong, Chapman, Brereton.
I await the summer window with interest...and news of the team-sheet for the first match in August!

[robinrover]

I think before we look to potential game changers we need to sort out the soft goals we conceded this season.
Lets be honest a lot of the goals came from the wings and most of the time it was down to our full backs.
Nyambe and bell are ok nothing more nothing less,so that should be our priority above all else.
Cutting the mistakes down will be the difference between where we are to the play off places.

[champs95]

Champs - Seventwo is right about fantasy in the sense that there is no way we can afford to pay for more than two or three quality new players. Otherwise, we have to rely on this business of "unearthing gems", which I am very sceptical about.
I think you are being harsh on Rothwell. I reckon there is always room for one unpredictable "flair" player who doesn't contribute much in other respects.
What I feel, though, is that you can only afford one of those on the pitch at a time, and we seem to have a few in that mode: Rothwell, Armstrong, Chapman, Brereton.
I await the summer window with interest...and news of the team-sheet for the first match in August!

Yeah your right. Best sticking to facts. We'll only know for sure next Aug. Anything worth us just speculation.
Have a great summer everyone.

[champs95]

Champs - Seventwo is right about fantasy in the sense that there is no way we can afford to pay for more than two or three quality new players. Otherwise, we have to rely on this business of "unearthing gems", which I am very sceptical about.
I think you are being harsh on Rothwell. I reckon there is always room for one unpredictable "flair" player who doesn't contribute much in other respects.
What I feel, though, is that you can only afford one of those on the pitch at a time, and we seem to have a few in that mode: Rothwell, Armstrong, Chapman, Brereton.
I await the summer window with interest...and news of the team-sheet for the first match in August!

A club like ours will always be about unearthing gem's. And promoting youth from the academy. Of which we have one of the best around.
Norwich got up this season due to a good European scouting network and the fact they paid nothing for the likes of Pukki, Hernandez etc etc.
I see TM has been actively scouting there of late.

I should have been clearer and said a lot less waffling rubbish.

This is all I wanted to say. We really do need to get in 3 or 4. Some will be free's. Bauer wont cost anything.
Some we may need to sell before we buy? So buying the likes of Bannan (who we have been in before and tracked for sometime) may mean selling first. Which as far as I can see, our only saleable asset is Dack.
So I was merley suggesting we may sell Dack first, and spend what we recoup on him, on a few players?
Fair enough, we have no money to spend and its unlikely we will keep all the best players, and sell nobody.


As in the flair players. How many do we actually need? How many miss out every week? And who is the most effective? I'd say Dack without a doubt. Armstrong sometimes, and Rothwell twice in very limited game time.
Personally I saw more from Chapman in 10 mins, than I have in 4 or 5 games of Rothwell to know who we need and who we don't. One is an ineffective luxury. The other a direct winger, something we just don't have. He is the only winger in the club with pace and skill to beat a man. We have more than we need re flair. What we don't have is anyone to get any of them in the game.

[AucklandRover]

I agree completely with the last bit.
The other nagging worry I have is that some big club comes in for Lenihan. He is about at the stage where Hanley and Duffy were when they left, and I can quite see one of the surviving managers in the PL bottom-half being interested.
Incidentally, I don't think we have ever discussed two other of our former U-23s who have done well.
O'Connell and O'Connor are virtually permanent fixtures in the Sheffield United and Bradford teams, respectively. (O'Connor played 90 games for Aberdeen before that).
Obviously, the former will be a PL player, next season.
As far as I can recall, neither got much of a first-team look-in when they were with us.