European Elections

[army88]

We can have another public vote! It will take place on May 23 and we can give a total kicking to both Conservatives and Labour.

Wasn’t going to bother at all but I just might vote as a objection to both of them , I know that’s a bad way really but how else can you let the two main parties know they are finished.

[1959_60]

That's the only way Army - through the ballot box.

[sinkov]

That's the only way Army - through the ballot box.

Unless it's an EU referendum and you're on the losing side, then it doesn't count.

[ClaretinBudapest]

Labour/Conservative 2 cheeks of the same bottom-funded by the same hidden hand to make it look like the sheepies have a choice when in reality their policies were/are almost indentical until Corbyn came along.
If the sheepies vote for the Brexit Party despite almost zero coverage of them in the mainstream propaganda, then they will quickly fudge a deal which is only reversible if the EU agrees to it.
It is not just Sinkov that sees through the delaying tactics:-

The former UKIP leader Diane James speaking in July 2017-Asked if she thought Brexit would really happen, Mrs James replied: “No I don’t, I don’t think it will happen. If we look at what is happening at the moment, the Remain campaign has taken the initiative since the referendum.
“I fully believe there is going to be a fudge delivered further down the line that actually won’t be Brexit at all.
“And all the time that the Remain campaign takes the initiative, takes the lead and people become gradually disenfranchised, fed up with seeing all the negotiations aired on a daily basis in the press and the media, that will all deliver effectively a non-Brexit.

[sinkov]

Just for a split-second 59, when I saw this, I thought you'd seen the light.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...xit-Party.html

[1959_60]

I came to my senses and saw the light years ago Sinkov

By the way, what do you make of your MP Nigel Evans?

On the radio today he said summat like, "I voted for Theresa's deal last time. But if it comes back for another vote, and nothing has changed with it, I will vote against it"

Now, I have no problem with Nigel changing his mind, people constantly change their minds as they see the light.

But Nigel is one of those who is against the public changing their mind and testing opinion with another vote - while reserving the right to change his mind and actually voting differently

Can you see the inconsistency there? Or do you think MP's are a special breed and deserve special treatment?

[Deadlydave]

Labour/Conservative 2 cheeks of the same bottom-funded by the same hidden hand to make it look like the sheepies have a choice when in reality their policies were/are almost indentical until Corbyn came along.
If the sheepies vote for the Brexit Party despite almost zero coverage of them in the mainstream propaganda, then they will quickly fudge a deal which is only reversible if the EU agrees to it.
It is not just Sinkov that sees through the delaying tactics:-

The former UKIP leader Diane James speaking in July 2017-Asked if she thought Brexit would really happen, Mrs James replied: “No I don’t, I don’t think it will happen. If we look at what is happening at the moment, the Remain campaign has taken the initiative since the referendum.
“I fully believe there is going to be a fudge delivered further down the line that actually won’t be Brexit at all.
“And all the time that the Remain campaign takes the initiative, takes the lead and people become gradually disenfranchised, fed up with seeing all the negotiations aired on a daily basis in the press and the media, that will all deliver effectively a non-Brexit.

yep, Uniparty in Westminster now on overdrive to maintain status quo. It will be so fantastic when we are in a Federal Superstate

[sinkov]

I came to my senses and saw the light years ago Sinkov

By the way, what do you make of your MP Nigel Evans?

On the radio today he said summat like, "I voted for Theresa's deal last time. But if it comes back for another vote, and nothing has changed with it, I will vote against it"

Now, I have no problem with Nigel changing his mind, people constantly change their minds as they see the light.

But Nigel is one of those who is against the public changing their mind and testing opinion with another vote - while reserving the right to change his mind and actually voting differently

Can you see the inconsistency there? Or do you think MP's are a special breed and deserve special treatment?

There's quite a few wavered in that last vote 59. I can see their dilemma though, they have been manouvered into a position where their choice has seemingly been narrowed into accepting the WA or remaining in the EU, neither of which is what they want, what the public voted for, nor what the Tories promised in their last manifesto. In which case deciding which is the least bad option must be difficult, and depending on the myriad of different circumstances could appear different on a daily basis.
I'm in a similar position, some days I think let's just sign up to the fecking thing, it's a trap, it's not Brexit, but it's a start, let's just get it over with, we can surely sort it later. Then I think feck that for a game of soldiers, just sit tight, vote it down, and see what the effect the Brexit Party landslide in the Euros will have on the enthusiasm of the Remainers for another referendum, and on the EU.
You know I'm as committed a Leaver as there is 59, so if even I'm unsure at times of the best way forward, it's no surprise that Brexiteer Tory MPs, with added pressure from the Whips, their colleagues, the media and their Remainer constituents are sometimes unsure as well is it ?
None of then have changed their minds on whether we should leave the EU or not, on whether the result of the referendum should be respected or not, they only change their minds on the best way of achieving it, in the face of an EU, a PM, a Parliament, a Civil Service, an Establishment and a media absolutely determined to deny democracy and overturn the decision of the British people. I almost feel sorry for them, and knowing exactly what Nigel's views are, and the situation he is in, I do feel a bit of sympathy for him. The fact that we are where we are now has nothing to do with him.

[savannahclaret]

Glad to be back 1959-60. I'm your wing man for what I now remember through rather rosy-tinted glasses as mature political debate. See how you are misleading me Sinkov and Beddington. On the point in hand, I don't think there were many Brexiteers before June 2016. I don't think of the conservatives as a 'remain' party: they are totally split. That's their cross to bear -- and badly they carry it. Whether and in what form we have Brexit, the Tories are in for as torrid a time as in the 1840s, when their conflict was over the corn laws. Let's hope Don the Con has his wings clipped by his own protectionist economic illiteracy. I suspect we will have some form of very soft Brexit and for that quite a few Europeans might be rather pleased. We have after all been a bit a of royal pain in Europe ever since we decide we won World War Two all on our own. My reading of history says a lot of Brexiteers want the Britain they imagined from watching movies about the war they missed in the 1950s: Sink the Bismarck, Dambusters, and the Cruel Sea, and Colditz. Now what was Guy Gibson's dog called in Dambusters (I'd get fired for using that word in a US high school these days). A lot of Brexiteers, though, seem to long for the days when they could be unintentionally offensive and not have to wonder if they had offended anyone. Here's to Britain's future not its nostalgic misunderstanding. The latter might cost a lot economically.

[sinkov]

It's not just you Savannah, 59 is the same, there was some Remain guy on the DP today also convinced he knew, every Remainer I read or listen to also seems to know, Matthew Parris displays this same ability on a weekly basis in his Times column, all of you appear to know why the 17.4 million who voted to leave the EU voted as they did. How is this done, what is it about an overwhelming personal desire for the UK to stay a member of the EU that enables this astonishing psychic ability. I'm not even sure what to call it, is it telepathy, is it clairvoyance, is it ESP ? I know why I voted to leave, but I have no idea what motivated the other 17.4 million to vote as I did. I wish I did, but I don't, so please let me into the secret, I'm jealous. How's it done ?